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Farmatar: Or why fw is totally broken

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#181 - 2013-04-03 16:44:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I anticipate there will be at least 10 people in each militia that like pvp and therefore will continue to fight for plexes when I am not online.
If these fictional people actually existed, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If they do exist, then I suggest you join FW, form a corporation with these people, and then go out and dominate FW.



Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-04-03 16:54:52 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.


They can, you just need more of them under the current system.
An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice.

In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area...
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#183 - 2013-04-03 17:00:23 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.


They can, you just need more of them under the current system.
An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice.

In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area...

Correction: Null Sec - Large number of cold bodies shoved into a very small area.

They only come out of their slumber when there is a capital fight to be had. Big smile
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#184 - 2013-04-03 17:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Takseen wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.


They can, you just need more of them under the current system.
An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice.

In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area...



Well you just increased the numbers needed to about 150 pvp pilots online and active at one time for each militia. There simply aren't that many pvp pilots attracted to the current fw sov mechanics.

I actually think we would see that many pilots in fw doing pvp in plexes - if they made it a good game that was pvp based. Like I said with notifications and a rollback system about 10 pilots could at least shut out the rabbits. Then as word spread how much pvp everyone could get in fw I think you would start to see those numbers growing to the point that almost every small gang pvp corp in eve wanted in. The lp we make from plexes could keep us in ships but with the numbers of ships exploding its not like you would be rolling in isk like the plexers are now.

But it just aint happening under the current mechanics.

I would love if there were at least 2 pvpers ready to fight for a plex in every system I entered. Others seem to be partial to this current hide and seek rabbit plexing system we have.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#185 - 2013-04-03 18:29:04 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.


They can, you just need more of them under the current system.
An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice.

In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area...



Well you just increased the numbers needed to about 150 pvp pilots online and active at one time for each militia. There simply aren't that many pvp pilots attracted to the current fw sov mechanics.

I actually think we would see that many pilots in fw doing pvp in plexes - if they made it a good game that was pvp based. Like I said with notifications and a rollback system about 10 pilots could at least shut out the rabbits. Then as word spread how much pvp everyone could get in fw I think you would start to see those numbers growing to the point that almost every small gang pvp corp in eve wanted in. The lp we make from plexes could keep us in ships but with the numbers of ships exploding its not like you would be rolling in isk like the plexers are now.

But it just aint happening under the current mechanics.

I would love if there were at least 2 pvpers ready to fight for a plex in every system I entered. Others seem to be partial to this current hide and seek rabbit plexing system we have.


Your posts are the most broken part of FW..
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#186 - 2013-04-03 20:07:43 UTC
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#187 - 2013-04-03 21:27:57 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.


Because most PvPers can't be bothered to plex down systems. They'd rather be blobbing.

There's a happy medium here somewhere. I think the LP offered for destroying WT's should be much higher. Bonuses should be given if you shoot down a WT in a system controlled by their faction. Rollback timers seem like a good thing. LP bonuses for systems with stations, and perhaps even bonuses depending on how long it takes to reach certain contested percentages.

As is, there's not much real strategy involved in controlling systems. It's mostly left up to whoever has the most farmers. Maybe the timers and LP payouts of plexes just need to be reduced so that PvPers don't feel like they're just circling buttons all the time to encourage the PvE aspect of FW.

.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#188 - 2013-04-03 21:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Bienator II wrote:
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.


How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax?

If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?

/massive sarcasm.

1. no stabs inside plex
2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow)
3. timers roll back to zero
4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.)
5. ban Cearain from forum
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Sedition.
#189 - 2013-04-03 22:58:06 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

5. ban Cearain from forum


+ 1 Big smile

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Pax Thar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2013-04-03 23:06:35 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.


How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax?

If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?

/massive sarcasm.

1. no stabs inside plex
2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow)
3. timers roll back to zero
4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.)
5. ban Cearain from forum



1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them.
2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks.
3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip.
4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now.
Lin Suizei
#191 - 2013-04-04 01:01:39 UTC
Pax Thar wrote:
3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip.


It would only allow us to shut down plex farming by cloaky stabbed alts. Plexing with normal PvP ships is mostly unaffected by this change.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#192 - 2013-04-04 02:53:13 UTC
Pax Thar wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.


How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax?

If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?

/massive sarcasm.

1. no stabs inside plex
2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow)
3. timers roll back to zero
4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.)
5. ban Cearain from forum



1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them.
2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks.
3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip.
4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now.


1. not a pvp reason.
2. theres lots of mechanics that dont work as intended and/or are abused to exploit levels to the detriment of the game.
3. spinning buttons is not the goal of FW.
4. income for low sp chars in fw is spiking out of all proportion to all other areas of eve at any time in the game. (outside scamming)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#193 - 2013-04-04 04:50:20 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?

When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#194 - 2013-04-04 05:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
X Gallentius wrote:

When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!



I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Big smile

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#195 - 2013-04-04 06:17:23 UTC
Pax Thar wrote:



1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them.
2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks.
3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip.
4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now.



1. So people can haul pvp ships to their homes. You think CCP said - 'Oh lets make a module for shlt players to farm LP risk free?'
2. Cloaking is ok by me. Not very tricky to decloak them.
3. If you don't shoot a wt to defend a plex - then it isn't your plex - is it? So it's none of your business if they run it or not, because you were unwilling to defend it. Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and let the enemy have a plex. Happens to us all.
4. No ones crying about rats. People just would like them to be a bit tougher. How is this a problem if you fit your ship properly?

The rest of us will still manage to kill the rats if buffed so if you won't be able to - then you are a faulty unit.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#196 - 2013-04-04 12:06:19 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.


You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-04-04 12:54:15 UTC
Meditril wrote:


You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights.


Glad its not just me that thinks Hookbills are really really strong. Double webs and rockets are a tough combo. But any faction frigate is just a "run away" signal when I was still flying Rifters on my alt. Faction frig usually means expensive fit, pilot with good skills, and maybe an OGB for good measure. Typically I'd engage and die before knocking more than a pinch of shields off.

On the flip side, remember that just because there's 3 WTs in the system doesn't mean they're in any way affiliated. I've been stung before because I was sitting in a plex with a militia ally. A hostile enters and I engage and die while the other guy cloaks or runs.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#198 - 2013-04-04 13:34:59 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!

I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Big smile
Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#199 - 2013-04-04 13:39:21 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.

thrasher cloaked.
first firetail was stabbed
second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)

i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.


This is refered to as "content" and we should be happy for it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#200 - 2013-04-04 13:46:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!

I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Big smile
Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius.


XG
I know you are very upset about the idea that players will actually know where their military complexes are being attacked so that they can defend them in an organized way.

But there really is no genius involved. If you want people to be able to defend plexes in pvp then letting them know where their military complexes are being attacked, is the first step.

Its not that the idea is so hard to grasp. Your failure to get it is more of a "you" problem.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815