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Just 4 words: remove NPC EWAR, goddammit!

Author
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-04-03 23:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Quote:

Actually, no, it's not hard. Super Meat Boy is a hard game. EVE Online is just a bit complicated.

If your an F1 monkey its not hard. Go do some small gang and solo work and come back to me. Go run logistics for a nullsec corporation.

Quote:

There are no fleet-friendly PvE activities for young pilots in EVE Online.


mine, do missions with friends, do exploration.

Quote:


Of course no. Ideally there should be a lot of intresting missions with interesting objectives (not only "destroy them all", "destroy that outpost" or "loot an item" types), station and ship "dungeons" which you explore on foot, some random content to keep you interested, advanced NPC AI and much more. But it's not here now, so I'm working with what we have.


By interesting objective you means, something different but not complicated enough that it interrupts my isk/hr. How in gods name are you supposed to have interesting encounters with combat if their is no ewar. You don't even know what you want.
Advanced npc ai? Oh no they killed my drones... oh well lemme just turn on my cap stable raven fit and fap in my other monitor while i target ****.

You don't know what you want. You need mission rats to loose ewar because it interrupts your repetitive action but you want interesting and unique encounters?Straight

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2013-04-03 23:49:51 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Too small scale, I talking about destroying there rats by out DPSing them, and getting there bounties and rights to the wrecks.


PM me when u wanna do this

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Neal Altol
What Shall We Call It
#23 - 2013-04-04 00:40:29 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Too small scale, I talking about destroying there rats by out DPSing them, and getting there bounties and rights to the wrecks.


PM me when u wanna do this




would that not just finish the mission faster for the mission runner if there's no loot needed?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-04-04 00:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Del

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-04-04 03:23:15 UTC
Iskinally wrote:
Everyone will thank you for that. Leave EWAR for PvP like it is designed. You know it sucks in PvE, we know it sucks in PvE, God knows it sucks in PvE. So just remove it, make the God (and all of us) happy. It's so easy!

P.S. Warp scramblers are ok cause you actually can fight back this and it makes things interesting. Unlike all those jammers, target disruptors and target dampers.

P.P.S. You can leave target painters on NPCs too, lol Lol



don't take missions with e-war you don't like


or....


fit and fly ships that run them better.


Gurista ='s boost your sensor strength. 1 eccm, 1 sensor backup array and learn the boost skills. Yes its dps a hit...but if not getting dps from your uber bs of doom due to being jammed, less dps is better than no dps. Doing gurista alot...really look into t3 with dissolution sequence. I run gurista missions alot....so I spec'd a tengu to run them well for example. Even did talons jsut to be sure. End result is I rarely see even 1 jam a whole mission. That be even in GE with bonus room and such.


damps....blockade can be done somewhat easily if you can fly well in a decent built cruiser. t3 or hac or navy cruiser. Just haul ass to close to under dampened range and speed tank the BS' damage. Or you can complain about your pimp bs being useless and slow as it takes forever to close on a target in your now gimped targetting range. Between these 2 options, a good cruiser flown well gets that blockade done much faster.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#26 - 2013-04-04 04:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
I don't mind NPC EW, but it is surprisingly strong EW (relatively) considering how weak NPCs are in every other aspect.

Also, it might be worth pointing out that "goddamnit" is actually supposed to be spelled "god damn it", NPC is non-player character, and EWAR is electronic warfare, bringing the total word count up to 8.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#27 - 2013-04-04 06:05:00 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Commander Ted's comment about griefing made me think, missions are the only non-PvP aspect of the game, sure there is ninja salvaging, but how could one make that PvP? And then it hit me, start scanning out mission runners, warp in a small fleet of ships Macs and cynabals with a few noctis and wipe out and salvage all ships and wrecks in the pockets. It would be hilarious even more so if there was a mission specific item that was wrapped up in the salvage.


All you need is a single frigate to do that. I suicided to *****.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13857418

People ninja salvage for reasons of pvp all the time. If I do it I usually try to look up the mission and see what to loot to prevent progression.

Too small scale, I talking about destroying there rats by out DPSing them, and getting there bounties and rights to the wrecks.


bastard... you leave my rats, salvage and stuff alone Twisted or ill shoot you P

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-04-04 06:25:31 UTC
I made 50mil from player bounties and loot yesterday.

No EWAR, ******* great times with the fleet.

Why do you tease yourself by doing PVE? Make your money on the markets like everyone else.






.

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-04-04 07:07:27 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Just one word: NO

And a few sentances as to why, eventually CCP wants to make PVE more like PVP meaning fewer ships higher bounties on those ships and the ships trying to flee from the mission area. If/when this happens then what will you do?


Most likely, eschew EVERY mission boat that can't bring the pain at point/scram range....

But I doubt we'll see a real need to point rats in the mainsteam tbh, far too much trouble in the metagame doing that.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#30 - 2013-04-04 07:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
Commander Ted wrote:
I agree! Things shouldn't be hard!

I mean does CCP actually expect us carebears to try? ILL UNSUB IF CCP DOESN'T DO THIS

With all the npc chages CCP wants you to buy isk with real money, that's the easiest way to do it and since you can't make enough isk in missions anymore we all should buy isk from real money if this continues.
By buying isk i mean selling PLEX on market so they can get more real money for exchange of isk.
Missions are so boring atm because of all that ewar so why do them ? just buy plex for real money and sell it on market.

After you get your isk from selling PLEX and buy a new ship, your new ship is useless for missions, because of TON of ewar.
So why would anyone buy a ship ? and why would anyone sell PLEX for isk if the ships are useless for missions ?
The whole missions / NPC's become so boring that there's nothing to do in eve beside pvp, oh and pvp is also dead sinde the large blocks control 0.0 and it's all peaceful.


Carebear = someone who gets isk from missions / NPC's instead of buying PLEX for real money then selling PLEX on market to get new ships.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-04-04 08:19:52 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
you can't make enough isk in missions anymore.



Hahahahahahahaha

Maybe you cant.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#32 - 2013-04-04 08:37:01 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
PAPULA wrote:
you can't make enough isk in missions anymore.



Hahahahahahahaha

Maybe you cant.

Yea well if you play 24 hours a day then maybe yes.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#33 - 2013-04-04 09:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Moran
Iskinally wrote:
Everyone will thank you for that. Leave EWAR for PvP like it is designed. You know it sucks in PvE, we know it sucks in PvE,


NPC EW is really easy to counter, here's how:

Web: ignore or kill
Scram: ignore or kill
Paint: ignore
Nos: keep distance
ECM: Just wait or use drones/fof/smartbombs (note that the last option might be hazardous)
Track.Dis.: keep distance
Tar.Damp.: get closer

You can also pre-emptively diminish or nullify the effects of most, if not all, of those by fitting your ship correctly before you even undock.

Did I forget something? Just tell me and I'll come up with a counter.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#34 - 2013-04-04 10:02:04 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Iskinally wrote:
In EVE Online PvE is just a tool to get ISK you need for PvP. It shouldn't be annoying and frustrating like it is now.


How come I can't make isk doing pvp?

So your saying eve should be "Do really really repetitive task for hours until your allowed to have fun"?

That doesn't sound very fun.

If i had it my way, id make it so that mining was like PI and you didn't even have to play to get ore. In order for your extractors to run you have to pvp. Same with missions.

Go back to WoW.



I wouldn't go *that* far with the mining ... PI is OK for about a week before the clicking gets to me and I forget to run a cycle or seven. Mining is quick and easy way to just chill with people that's slightly more engaging than ship spinning.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#35 - 2013-04-04 10:11:41 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Iskinally wrote:
Everyone will thank you for that. Leave EWAR for PvP like it is designed. You know it sucks in PvE, we know it sucks in PvE,


ECM: Just wait or use drones/fof/smartbombs (note that the last option might be hazardous)

Your drones will die in 10 seconds
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#36 - 2013-04-04 10:26:06 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Sable Moran wrote:
Iskinally wrote:
Everyone will thank you for that. Leave EWAR for PvP like it is designed. You know it sucks in PvE, we know it sucks in PvE,


ECM: Just wait or use drones/fof/smartbombs (note that the last option might be hazardous)

Your drones will die in 10 seconds


Can't confirm. My web is constantly holding the agression on me :)

There are ways to work around that, and the mission runners I know have been angry about the new NPC AI for around 15 seconds. Cause it is not that bad.
As for running sites/missioning in lowsec-nullsec, mision runners went orgasmic about those changes, cause when a sologanker now flies into a guristasplex/anom, HE is the one to get instajammed.... yey.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#37 - 2013-04-04 10:34:17 UTC
Drones were good counter against ECM in PvE but now drones are useless.
Iskinally
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-04 12:19:48 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Iskinally wrote:

Quote:
And as far as your fleet vs poor old you, that can be solved by *gasp* flying with a fleet your self.


There are no fleet-friendly PvE activities for young pilots in EVE Online.


There is plenty, you can start by getting a small fleet together and running level 3 missions. they just made entry level remote rep ships, so that will help for those who do not have T2 tanking skills and 4~8 T1 fit cruisers should be more than enough DPS to do any level 3 mission.
Once you can do that fairly well you can take your fleet into level 4 missions and give them a whirl.


It's not fleet-friendly activity cause you have no benefits of bringing a fleet to missions. The reward doesn't scale.

Quote:
mine, do missions with friends, do exploration.


Extremely boring, doesn't worth it, solo activity with the same EWAR problem.

Quote:
By interesting objective you means, something different but not complicated enough that it interrupts my isk/hr. How in gods name are you supposed to have interesting encounters with combat if their is no ewar. You don't even know what you want.
Advanced npc ai? Oh no they killed my drones... oh well lemme just turn on my cap stable raven fit and fap in my other monitor while i target ****.

You don't know what you want. You need mission rats to loose ewar because it interrupts your repetitive action but you want interesting and unique encounters?


You don't wanna see the big picture, you just wanna mock me. It's sad. But I try to explain.

First, for me isk/hr doesn't mean anything. I'm playing the game and not working in EVE universe. I prefer to genocide missions and plexes because it's fun and satisfying, although I know that blitzing them makes you more ISK. I like exploration because you don't know what you will find in the next system. I like random factor in games. Annoying things like current NPC EWAR is just destroying the fun. It doesn't make the game more difficult or more interesting, it's making it annoying and irritating. See the difference? It's like: "Hey, you've found this blood raider expedition and wanna do it in your Harbinger with lazor turrets? Then F..K YOU, YOU CAN'T! Cause I'm gonna disrupt your tracking so hard you'll kiss the moon! Go kill some angels, moron!".

Second, there are plenty of ways to make NPC encounters more interesting and challenging without current EWAR.

You can make really interesting missions. For example, how about a mission there you need to explore insides of a gigantic asteroid (like 200 km in diameter)? You need to carefully make your way through the labyrinth, avoiding traps and ambushes, and then you find the objective... OH SHI~... The pirates trying to blow up the asteroid with you inside! Timer starts, and you need quickly make your way back and take care of the pirates outside. Oh, and guess what? Every time you take the mission the labyrinth is randomly generated. That would've been AWESOME!
Or how about a mission there you need to figure out and destroy the smuggler by speaking with various NPC-pilots, scanning their cargos, spying in them in cloak etc?
Or how about a pure fleet mission there you need to take down a pirate fortress?
How about random plexes, so you can't go to evelopedia and read about how to do it? And, more important, will never encounter the exact same plex again?
I come up with these missions in like five minutes. Ofc I'm sure CCP can make a lot better. If they really want. Probably in EVE Online 2.

NPC AI is crap now. It can't even go around large objects. They just fly straight at you and shoot. A schoolgirl can program that. All those asteroids and ruins and stations on mission sites are just decorations. You can shoot through them. Imagine if you couldn't. So much possibilities! You can hide behind them to lower the incoming damage. NPC can hide from you behind objects - no EWAR needed for that, and fight will become more interesting. Blowing up structures will become useful for a change!

How about different EWAR, designed specifically for NPC? They can slowly burn random module on your ship, and if you are not fast and careful enough you can end up without a gun or a shield booster. They can hack your target comp and make ship phantoms appear on your display so you'll need to figure out which enemy ship is the real one. They can use logists to help them. They can use suicide bombers for adrenaline "OH SHI~!" moments.

In other words, there are tons of things CCP can do to make the game more challenging and INTERESTING, not irritating! And while they are on it (I'm sure they are), let's get back to my original point: remove NPC EWAR, goddammit! It's crap! Just remove it while you do something better for NPCs!
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-04-04 12:23:45 UTC
Iskinally wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Iskinally wrote:

Quote:
And as far as your fleet vs poor old you, that can be solved by *gasp* flying with a fleet your self.


There are no fleet-friendly PvE activities for young pilots in EVE Online.


There is plenty, you can start by getting a small fleet together and running level 3 missions. they just made entry level remote rep ships, so that will help for those who do not have T2 tanking skills and 4~8 T1 fit cruisers should be more than enough DPS to do any level 3 mission.
Once you can do that fairly well you can take your fleet into level 4 missions and give them a whirl.


It's not fleet-friendly activity cause you have no benefits of bringing a fleet to missions. The reward doesn't scale.


With more people, you can run the missions faster, the faster you run missions the more missions you can complete, the more missions you complete the more ISK you and your fleet get.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Iskinally
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-04-04 12:28:29 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Iskinally wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Iskinally wrote:

Quote:
And as far as your fleet vs poor old you, that can be solved by *gasp* flying with a fleet your self.


There are no fleet-friendly PvE activities for young pilots in EVE Online.


There is plenty, you can start by getting a small fleet together and running level 3 missions. they just made entry level remote rep ships, so that will help for those who do not have T2 tanking skills and 4~8 T1 fit cruisers should be more than enough DPS to do any level 3 mission.
Once you can do that fairly well you can take your fleet into level 4 missions and give them a whirl.


It's not fleet-friendly activity cause you have no benefits of bringing a fleet to missions. The reward doesn't scale.


With more people, you can run the missions faster, the faster you run missions the more missions you can complete, the more missions you complete the more ISK you and your fleet get.


Oh cmon! Show me even one pilot who do level 3 missions with friends? Just one? And don't tell me you do it cause I'm not gonna belive that.
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