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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Farmatar: Or why fw is totally broken

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Commissar Veldt
Progressive State
#61 - 2013-03-30 06:56:20 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.

It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.


I know loads in Caldari and Gallente, plenty out there, plenty of us p*ssed off with current FW mechanic which has killed our baby and turned it into farmville. Once you start getting stuck into PVP/plexing out in Black Rise you will get to know the local corps on both sides, who fights, who runs, who is the farmers etc...

Think timer rollbacks is a good idea but lets say I find a farmer, warp into plex and he cloaks or warps off. , as soon as I leave because I cant get a fight hes straight back on the button, timer rollback of about 1 minute (because im not patient enough to try camp/chase farmers anymore).
Best Idea I have heard recently is a few more spawns of NPC's, not many, but make it so one new NPC spawns every few minutes or so, causing farmers to have to do more than kill one NPC then sit on button.
Everyone used to b*tch and whine about FW being PVE and NPC's but if you had NPC spawns even at half of what they used to be I think it would reduce LP farming)
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-03-30 11:02:21 UTC
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982
That is fw actually^^
This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-03-30 11:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Takseen
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982
That is fw actually^^
This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^


Ah yes. The vital Gallente staging system of Immuri. I live right next door, it gets farmed fairly regularly by both sides. Gives me something to do while waiting for a fleet to join.

Edit : Also note that this guy fits neither cloaks nor warp core stabs. So removing both is only a partial fix to the perceived problem.
Lin Suizei
#64 - 2013-03-30 11:17:05 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982
That is fw actually^^
This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^


These guys should get medals for truly winning at faction war.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-03-30 11:30:51 UTC
Quote:
Ah yes. The vital Gallente staging system of Immuri. I live right next door, it gets farmed fairly regularly by both sides. Gives me something to do while waiting for a fleet to join.

Edit : Also note that this guy fits neither cloaks nor warp core stabs. So removing both is only a partial fix to the perceived problem.


Okay you are right.
But actually I would be even happy with a partial fix.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Ginger Barbarella
#66 - 2013-03-30 12:56:36 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982
That is fw actually^^
This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^


He's doing something. How many of you are just sitting in high sec spinning?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#67 - 2013-03-30 20:42:25 UTC
chatgris wrote:
This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.

Farmers gonna farm :(


I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc.

I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#68 - 2013-03-30 21:08:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
chatgris wrote:
This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.

Farmers gonna farm :(


I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc.

I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic.


I too would love to see FW sov a pvp mechanic.

However I can't see it ever being so without either
a: massive structure bashing grinds
or
b: hugely exploitable by alt farming.


In reality EVE doesn't really have the playerbase to make any form of sov a completely pvp mechanic without some form of timer watching, structure bashing mechanic. If eve had 10x the number spread out across all TZ then I'd say there would be enough players to actually make a completly pvp mechanic at least viable. But then it would probably be exploitable by alt farming of some kind.


TBH I'd like to see the Teired WZ gone and have standard LP values for plex's regard less of how much of the WZ you control.

Keep the lockout mechanic and system upgrades so you can upgrade your home etc. This way it is still valuable to capture space.

This would stop the farm horde from militia hopping to whatever militia is at highest teir for bonussed LP but still allow the actual FW players to make enough LP to support their playstyle.

Do this and you pretty much remove the biggest farm factor for most farmers - bonussed LP.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-03-30 21:17:33 UTC
Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.

This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers.

.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#70 - 2013-03-30 21:37:21 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.

This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers.


Not really a workable fix IMO this would be an account wide restriction which kinda goes against the sandbox feel of eve.
In doing this you might as well just say that from now on each account can only have 1 toon.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-03-30 22:02:50 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Not really a workable fix IMO this would be an account wide restriction which kinda goes against the sandbox feel of eve.

In doing this you might as well just say that from now on each account can only have 1 toon.


There's never going to be a workable fix that fits within the sandbox element. Players will always find a way around it. The only way to truly get rid of this kind of stuff is to nerf it at the account level.

.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#72 - 2013-03-30 22:12:11 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:


There's never going to be a workable fix that fits within the sandbox element. Players will always find a way around it. The only way to truly get rid of this kind of stuff is to nerf it at the account level.


Anything requiring an account nerf is very bad for eve. got nothing to do the sandbox element now that I think about it.

Mucking about with mechanics is one thing but mucking about with account is a whole other can of worms.

One toon in FW - pretty easy from a coding pov but how would you determine 'mains'? not practicable.....

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#73 - 2013-03-30 22:21:08 UTC
Why does factional warfare seem to break after every patch?


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#74 - 2013-03-30 22:44:10 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Cearain wrote:
chatgris wrote:
This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.

Farmers gonna farm :(


I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc.

I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic.


I too would love to see FW sov a pvp mechanic.

However I can't see it ever being so without either
a: massive structure bashing grinds
or
b: hugely exploitable by alt farming.


In reality EVE doesn't really have the playerbase to make any form of sov a completely pvp mechanic without some form of timer watching, structure bashing mechanic. If eve had 10x the number spread out across all TZ then I'd say there would be enough players to actually make a completly pvp mechanic at least viable. But then it would probably be exploitable by alt farming of some kind..


You are right that if there were a huge increase in numbers the current system might work. That is why ccp needs to implement mechanics such that each pvp has a much bigger impact on the warzone than the pve-ers.

If they implement a form or timer rollback, and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.

CCP focused on lockouts and lp rewards instead.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#75 - 2013-03-30 22:44:56 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Why does factional warfare seem to break after every patch?


- killz


CCP never fixes it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Grendel Sickswitch
#76 - 2013-03-30 23:35:59 UTC
it's one of the best ways of making isk atm and rightly so given the amount of ships you lose.

how many ships do mission runners lose? miners?
Lin Suizei
#77 - 2013-03-31 01:33:45 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Do this and you pretty much remove the biggest farm factor for most farmers - bonussed LP.


Someone on these forums got it right a few weeks ago - ultimately, as long as undocking a non-combat ship is preferrable to undocking a PvP ship, faction war will never be good. Even if LP rewards are reduced, farmers will still farm, because it's so easy, safe, and requires next to zero investment.

With regards to all the suggestions of timer countdowns if people warp out our people cloak, don't forget there also needs to be some kind of measure to deal with people (i.e. Walter Islands) in nano condors who keep range, simply waiting for pirates and wartargets to leave before they finish the plex - otherwise, farmers just do that instead.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Sedition.
#78 - 2013-03-31 03:13:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:
and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.




only you on that one matey wondered how many posts it would take you to get that in there

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#79 - 2013-03-31 04:53:19 UTC
implementing a timer reset is probably 30min effort for somebody who never looked at the code before (not counting testing effort). Something tells me CCP deliberately doesn't want to change that for some reason otherwise we would have it already since retribution.

Would farmers adapt? Possibly. The thing is that every feature needs maintenance in a dynamic world like we have it in eve. The first few weeks after inferno where awesome, something similar happened after retribution. Maybe we can repeat that just by adding timer resets. But as i said for some reason ccp doesn't want to do it. The situation right now is much better as we had it with the cashout strategies after inferno but I really believe it could be even better with minor tweaks to the mechanics.

why i think CCP does not want to change it? Since there was not a single dev comment on a FW topic since retribution. This makes me a bit sad since FW could be so much more as it is now just by continuing to adjust a few things here and there from time to time.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-03-31 10:33:27 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.

This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers.


This is a terrible idea on multiple levels.
-former carebears can't test the waters with a FW alt
-if your highest SP character isn't a combat character, its even worse