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Out of Pod Experience

 
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Polite feedback on why I'm quitting Eve

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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-03-29 09:25:10 UTC
Dreygun wrote:
Honestly I think the pod loss mechanic is TOO LENIENT. It is dumb to have a mechanic this basically only punishing if you forget. It should be possible for a good pirate/merc to force SP loss. Then imagine the bounty system, at the prospect of losing real SP a high bounty could be placed with the requirement for certain amount of SP loss. High enough bounty and you would really be scared to undock. plus it makes ransoming viable again which i think would be cool.


That is true, as a result of making pod deaths meaningful it would actually fix the entire bounty system in one swoop instead of this current ham fisted and pretty awful mechanic which CCP has wasted loads of its Dev time on trying to implement
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#42 - 2013-03-29 09:26:09 UTC
Astrometric Rangefinding V was my favourite science course, so I did it twice on my scanner alt. After that pod loss I cried a bit, then I laughed when I realized what skill I lost.
.

.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#43 - 2013-03-29 09:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Yeah I will agree with what a few others have mentioned in this thread. In that I mean it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have a warning notification on undock when your clone isn't up to date. Just the same as those warnings you get when you are jumping from high securty space into low sec.

Until you turn them off because they get to be annoying of course.

Though I personally don't understand why it would be so difficult just to remember to do so on your own. Hell, I don't think I've even once forgot to update my clone in the little over 8 years that I've played this game.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#44 - 2013-03-29 09:35:29 UTC
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.

The Tears Must Flow
Irya Boone
The Scope
#45 - 2013-03-29 09:52:38 UTC
+1 i can't agree more ...

Loosing Sp just because you did'nt click on a f.. button ... so ....

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-03-29 09:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
I think the OP is right.
If updating your clone is something that you ALWAYS do every single time you die, and the consequences of forgetting it are potentially devastating, why even bother with this mechanic instead of just having it automated?

Yeah, I know, EVE is hardcore, blah blah blah....but this is one of those "hardcore" mechanics that adds nothing to gameplay value and will ultimately affect newer players (who may forget to upgrade their clones) more than the vets.

In my opinion, the endgame should be "hardcore" and unforgiving, but redundant game mechanics that more or less just p*ss of newbies are bad for the game and bad for new player retention.


Clones do have a cost, are you asking for a mechanic that spends your ISK for you?


Yes.
A simple checkbox in the clones menu:"Always upgrade clone after death"
Check or uncheck if you like and deal with the consequences.

what if you lived in 0.0 station and then it got captured? You got podded. You rose in that station and what? You have no rights to use cloning facility. So this function cannot be used. But you think it works. You undock and what? New open letter to CCP about new feature "auto-auto something"?

Another case: you got podded and at the time have no money to update clone. What now?

Automated steps always bad if they depend of many factors. Because you always need to verify if all is Ok. This means you have no automation. It's like with alarm on your phone: you need to check every evening if phone won't shut off because of low battery (happened for me once) and alarm is running (happened for me once too, some software error) and nothing prevents it from waking you up on morning at given time (like summer/winter time mode evaded attention of phone OS).

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-03-29 09:57:11 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
+1 i can't agree more ...

Loosing Sp just because you did'nt click on a f.. button ... so ....


happens all the time when you forgot to refresh skill queue and it got empty Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-03-29 09:57:47 UTC
I remember the time I decided to go WH diving for the first time.

Got lost, WH collapsed, couldn't scan down another as I didn't really have the skills.

Had not upgraded clone.

Last skill was Caldari Industrial 5.

Right click - self destruct and shed a tear for those 2 min until I went bang, then added back into the qeue again.

Checking clones is now pure habit and I've never lost another SP.

I have no problems with the mechanic in the game at all, it adds a little detail which to me is important for the lore of eve.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-03-29 10:06:26 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:


Losing a pod should be worse than losing a ship. At the moment people fear the SP loss from losing their T3 ship, but getting you actual clone blown up doesn't really matter at all.


Apart from the clone fee, the implant loss, and the relocation to yout med clone station.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-03-29 10:11:19 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:


Losing a pod should be worse than losing a ship. At the moment people fear the SP loss from losing their T3 ship, but getting you actual clone blown up doesn't really matter at all.


Apart from the clone fee, the implant loss, and the relocation to yout med clone station.


Well done again at ignoring and missing out most of the points I gave in the posts above.

Implant loss is nothing if the player has no implants fitted. The clone fee is also minimal until you begin to reach really high levels of SP, and even then it is still not a massive loss to those pilots. And relocation to your med clone station is actually a benefit to most players as it saves them to travel time of having to fly back.

Don't worry, I know that changes which make the game have harsher consequences can be scary at first. :)
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-03-29 10:17:31 UTC
To be honost, the possibility of actually losing valuable things (ships, implants, skillpoints) is why a lot of people like this game and keep on playing.
Most people only forget to update their clone once, after that they know to check clones after they die.
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#52 - 2013-03-29 10:28:37 UTC
My polite feedback would be Eve is not a game for someone who CBA into making sure a simple thing is done.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-29 10:29:55 UTC
Djana Libra wrote:
To be honost, the possibility of actually losing valuable things (ships, implants, skillpoints) is why a lot of people like this game and keep on playing.
Most people only forget to update their clone once, after that they know to check clones after they die.


Eve is a pvp game, and losses should be related to pvp and possibly really hurt you.
Hell, I wouldn't even mind if CCP introduced a weapon that drained skillpoints instead of the hitpoints of your ship.

Painful losses in pvp because someone was plain better than you or you just buggered it up are one thing.
Losing precious things to a confusing UI that makes it even harder for beginners to get into the game is a completely different thing in my opinion.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-03-29 10:49:02 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:


Implant loss is nothing if the player has no implants fitted. The clone fee is also minimal until you begin to reach really high levels of SP, and even then it is still not a massive loss to those pilots. And relocation to your med clone station is actually a benefit to most players as it saves them to travel time of having to fly back.


Ok. So if someone has a low SP clone with no implants, podkills don't mean much. Exactly like how losing a T1 unrigged frigate doesn't mean much. I don't see the problem.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-03-29 11:02:46 UTC
Seetesh wrote:
I think you need to stick to games like WOW and STO and other mainstream MMOs with low learning curves, this is Eve Online. It is a brutal hard unforgiving game. Only those who can adapt can make it in this game. Since 2003 I have made mistakes and lost SPs and assets but you learn and come out stronger and wiser.


Mainstream MMOs are popular not because of a low learning curve they keep players playing the game for years with friends and family. EvE is a particular niche game made for vets who prefer the game how they play it, yet niche games have a huge problem: player retention. If it wasn't for PLEX I truly don't see EvE surviving to it's 10th anniversary, as players wouldn't have an incentive to stay to level (burnout even affects vets).

EvE like any MMO needs to identify the aspects of the game that makes players leave, as it's not good for the game when they do. The population becomes a F2P game and just as stale, the "whales" paying for their addictions, and careless.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#56 - 2013-03-29 11:06:30 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seetesh wrote:
I think you need to stick to games like WOW and STO and other mainstream MMOs with low learning curves, this is Eve Online. It is a brutal hard unforgiving game. Only those who can adapt can make it in this game. Since 2003 I have made mistakes and lost SPs and assets but you learn and come out stronger and wiser.


Mainstream MMOs are popular not because of a low learning curve they keep players playing the game for years with friends and family. EvE is a particular niche game made for vets who prefer the game how they play it, yet niche games have a huge problem: player retention. If it wasn't for PLEX I truly don't see EvE surviving to it's 10th anniversary, as players wouldn't have an incentive to stay to level (burnout even affects vets).

EvE like any MMO needs to identify the aspects of the game that makes players leave, as it's not good for the game when they do. The population becomes a F2P game and just as stale, the "whales" paying for their addictions, and careless.


Making death more meaningful would help retain players. Catering for mentally deficient 12 year olds that need hand holding throughout the entire game is what would kill this game.
Primary Me
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-03-29 11:06:30 UTC
Being pod killed without a full clone only results in a 5% loss of sp, and then only 5% of the difference between your total sp and your current clone amount.

If the OP has lost 20+ training days, by my rough maths, that means he has been playing for 400+ days, so no real excuse for not knowing or remembering the clone mechanic.

Or there is some exaggeration going on somewhere...
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#58 - 2013-03-29 11:06:58 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seetesh wrote:
I think you need to stick to games like WOW and STO and other mainstream MMOs with low learning curves, this is Eve Online. It is a brutal hard unforgiving game. Only those who can adapt can make it in this game. Since 2003 I have made mistakes and lost SPs and assets but you learn and come out stronger and wiser.


Mainstream MMOs are popular not because of a low learning curve they keep players playing the game for years with friends and family. EvE is a particular niche game made for vets who prefer the game how they play it, yet niche games have a huge problem: player retention. If it wasn't for PLEX I truly don't see EvE surviving to it's 10th anniversary, as players wouldn't have an incentive to stay to level (burnout even affects vets).

EvE like any MMO needs to identify the aspects of the game that makes players leave, as it's not good for the game when they do. The population becomes a F2P game and just as stale, the "whales" paying for their addictions, and careless.


EvE has being doing just fine for the last 10 years. The more people like this cry, the more EvE Online grows.

The Tears Must Flow
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#59 - 2013-03-29 11:10:16 UTC
Part of the issue in this case may be the manic haste which FW seems to reship. Frig fleets that smash it out like a line of battleships move from ship to pod at a frightening rate.

You could switch to a more measured approach. Stalk a certain fight or take time to set it up, then fight. If you lose your ship then dock up and take a few minutes to go over the fight, look over your logs, check the loss mail, think about what your instinct was and if you followed it or went in another direction, etc.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#60 - 2013-03-29 11:17:25 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

Mainstream MMOs are popular not because of a low learning curve they keep players playing the game for years with friends and family. EvE is a particular niche game made for vets who prefer the game how they play it, yet niche games have a huge problem: player retention. If it wasn't for PLEX I truly don't see EvE surviving to it's 10th anniversary, as players wouldn't have an incentive to stay to level (burnout even affects vets).

EvE like any MMO needs to identify the aspects of the game that makes players leave, as it's not good for the game when they do. The population becomes a F2P game and just as stale, the "whales" paying for their addictions, and careless.


The view from CCP must be kind of funny in a way. I know I have filled out a few surveys as to why I am leaving Eve only to be back at it in a week or two. The OP will probably be back to.