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Crime & Punishment

 
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How to prevent - as a miner - to be ganked?

Author
Vinzent Zeppelin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-03-27 04:37:49 UTC
I learned first-hand the other day that a Retriever, with two Core Defense Field Extender rigs, a Damage Control I, and a thermic shield hardener can survive a single T2-fit Catalyst in 0.5 sec.

I only docked to fit the hardener because I noticed a known ganker enter the system -- I don't mine AFK, so the mid-slot is usually occupied by a survey scanner so I know when to cycle the lasers -- but an anti-thermal shield rig may be a workable substitute.

The only other things I can recommend are to park your barge at least 20km away from the belt entry point, and make sure your overview is displaying player ships (use the survey scan window for asteroids).
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
The Initiative.
#42 - 2013-03-27 07:00:36 UTC
do
not
mine
afk
ok


orbit roid, fit a tank (mods and rigs)....if you mine afk then yield really does not matter that much, neither does it matter if you mine in a t1 or a t2 vessel.

There are more ways to avoid being ganked than to actually gank....
think about it.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-03-28 09:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
Woah, that's a lot of text.

1) He was probably new to suicide ganking and didn't do a very good job of it.

2) I honestly don't know. The new crime watch mechanics still confuse me a little. I just stay in lowsec and shoot anyone who tries to shoot me.

3) Players who commit such acts are no longer allowed to warp away after the crime in the hopes of avoiding Concord. There was a brief time where a player could gank another, warp away, gank another person, warp away, and attempt again before Concord could catch them. Now players who attempt to gank cannot leave the grid until Concord deals with them proper.

4) Should have yes probably. Another player must have scooped the loot.

5) The person who scooped the loot also must've scooped your drones as well. As for having a partner, it's impossible to know for sure unless you ask him.

6) There are MANY methods to prevent an attack like that from happening again, many of which go unheeded.

a) Move away from high traffic areas. They're hotbeds for gankers. Stay away from trade routes and such as well. You're trading the comfort of being so close to a trade hub for safety. A good trade off in my opinion.

b) Fit a tank on your ship and give special attention to your EM resistance. Mining barges and exumers are intended to be shield tanking ships. As such they can be a tad weak on EM resistances. A decent ganker would look at what resistances these ships are weakest against and come packing ammo specific to exploit that weakness. With the recent rebalance of barges and exumers, they can carry quite a strong tank. The irony is that so many miners neglect to fit a tank then come crying on the forums about how often they're getting ganked. A decent tank buys you precious seconds you need for Concord to arrive.

c) Assuming you left high population areas, become familiar with destroyer ship names (the most common ship used in ganking) and become familiar with how to use your directional scanner. If you see one of these ships on d-scan, it's time to align to safety. If this ship warps in on your location, you're already aligned and ready to bolt.

d) Stay far away from highsec systems that have ice belts. They're hotbeds for bot miners and always attract gankers.

e) Don't mine right next to the spot you warp in at zero in the belt. Asteroid belts are often in the shape of a half moon, with the warp to zero spot in the center. If you position yourself at one of the two corners, it could buy you some time to get out if you need it.

f) Orbit the asteroid you're mining or one near it. A moving target ALWAYS takes less damage from attacks then a stationary target. Sometimes that difference is negligible but it is still a difference and any advantage you can get over would-be gankers is always good.

7) See point six.

8) See point six.

9) Did you manually upload it yourself to battleclinic? It's not done automatically by the EvE client. Either you have to or your would-be ganker has to and I doubt he'll upload his own loss.

10) We only know his fitting based on what you've told us. And of what you shown us, no that's not a very good fitting for suicide ganking. Not terrible, but certainly room for improvement.

11) Possibly. I'm still not completely familiar with how crime watch works.

12) Yes Concord does respond quicker when they're close. Some miners will start up a throwaway trial account, bring in a newbie alt into their system and have that alt commit a crime that would bring Concord into the belt. I'm not sure if CCP has dubbed that an exploit or not. I can't see how it could be stopped.
-Since Concord has left the belt, the response time is back to what it is normally in that system.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Mike Adoulin
The Clown Shoe Crew
P I R A T
#44 - 2013-03-28 11:14:31 UTC
GM's, can you sticky this thread?

Needs to be stickied.

Next time somebody comes into C&P crying about their smexy iceboat getting popped, they can be pointed to this thread.

Hel, TNO should have a link to it on their website..:)

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Mynutor
Black Box Technologies
#45 - 2013-03-28 13:07:41 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
GM's, can you sticky this thread?

Needs to be stickied.

Next time somebody comes into C&P crying about their smexy iceboat getting popped, they can be pointed to this thread.

Hel, TNO should have a link to it on their website..:)

Yeah, some of the responses are really good.

Objective sighted. Target locked. Lasers activated. Pew-pew-pew. Die roid..., DIE!

Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-03-28 16:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
Mining is one of those risk vs reward things.

For me I take on additional risk when I mine because I usually do it on my off monitor while I do things on my main. Because I know I face additional risk I take measures to offset this risk:

1. I mine in low traffic areas - gankers are more likely to gank a few jumps from trade hubs, the extra effort of trying to track down miners in low traffic areas just doesn't have the payoff of jumping into an ice system and shooting the weakest of the pack.

2. I fit a tank on my ship - unless they're coming for you personally they're going to go for the lowest hanging fruit. If you're not the weakest target they can easily find they're going to go for easier targets. Just don't put expensive mods on your ship (anything above tech II mods and tech I rigs).

3. I fly skiffs and procurers - to go along with 2, I fly the tankiest barges. If they're motivated enough they can pop you, but it's rarely worth the effort instead of popping a paper tanked mack.

4. I don't get emotional if I get harassed - if they're bumping you or something else don't give them the tears they're looking for. Just dock up for a while or move system. If you start smack talking, crying, or talking big about how your mega alliance is going to come beat them up you're just setting yourself up to be a target. I've seen it, and it made me /facepalm so hard.

The ganker advise is also sound. But the most important thing to remember is that if they really want to kill you they probably can, and being diligent in paying attention to local and d-scan is better than having the best tank. But I mine as a side activity for fun and a little extra income and don't care if someone ganks me in my procurer.
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
#47 - 2013-04-04 23:36:59 UTC
If you are that worried about getting ganked while mining in high-sec, then mining efficiency should be a secondary concern. Forget about the Mining Upgrades and use a Damage Control and other armor or shield tanking modules.

Mine in a dead-end system, that has low traffic. For example, a 0.6 or 0.7 system that has only one or no station and only one gate.

If you have an alt that can pilot and Orca or a Command Ship, use them as your fleet commander to boost your shield, armor, etc.... Every little bit helps.

If you have a spare alt, then place it in a cruiser, battlecruiser or battleship and use it to shield transfer and remote armor rep you while you mine. The more damage you can take, and the longer you can hold out, the better. An ECM boat also works nicely for this role.

If you have a spare alt that is netural and not a part of your corp, then use it to attack you in the belt that you plan on mining. Concord will come along fairly quick, pop your alt, and remain in the belt for quite a while. I'm not sure exactly how long they stay in the belt, but I've had them stay for at least 2 or 3 hours before while I was mining. This will provide at least a little bit of a deterrent to the less-motivated gankers when they see that Concord is already in the belt.

The point is, there are steps you can take to make gaking as un-profitable and as much of a waste of time and resources as you can.
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-04-06 16:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
QuakeGod wrote:
If you have a spare alt that is netural and not a part of your corp, then use it to attack you in the belt that you plan on mining. Concord will come along fairly quick, pop your alt, and remain in the belt for quite a while ...


Competent gankers will draw off CONCORD by shooting up a customs office or some-such with newbships.

Keep an eye on the CONCORD vessels. If they suddenly leave, then someone is probably deliberately repositioning them, and it might be a good time to dock up.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com

Agent Trask
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-04-06 16:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
Eight Two wrote:


Smartbomb Blink

I know that video, pretty epic.

Out of curiosity (I prefer ganking freighters every now and then) and since you seem to be knowledgeable on the topic, how often do you see stuff like that? People litterally sitting on top of each other?


Way too often.

Usually it's an Orca with barges orbiting it to prevent bumping. Sometimes a freighter is nearby as well. And often the pilots involved are labeled like robots.

If you bump the orca away with a Stabber Fleet Issue with a 100MWD, the rest of the ships all follow it like little ducklings.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com

Agent Trask
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-04-06 16:51:22 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Princess Saskia wrote:
Hire me too have a booting tengu sit in your home system whilst you mine!

Thanks for reminding me.
Joining a mining fleet, or using the main character on my alt account instead of the week old hero makes it 5 meta cats to gank that boat without actually running a link.


This assumes that the person offering the mining fleet isn't a ganker.

1 ) Offer mining boosts from your Orca in a safe spot.
2 ) Warp the gank fleet to a safe spot, and fleet warp the mining fleet to that spot simultaneously.

3 ) Party on!

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com

Manny Moons
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-04-08 19:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Manny Moons
Eve is often compared to "Rock, Paper, Scissors" for good reason. Every choice you make is a trade-off, and every positive ship attribute has, or should have, a corresponding negative. There is some great advice in this thread, but in my opinion some of it is impractical for productive mining.

For instance, D-scan is a great tool, and using it diligently can save you when you are in danger. D-scan could enable a miner to have a few seconds advance warning that gankers are in the system and coming for someone. So is it a good tool for a highsec miner? In my opinion, no it is not. Mining is so tedious and boring that most players can't stand doing it for long. Most of the ones who do continue to mine have to find something else to occupy their minds while mining. I believe that if you combine mining with checking D-scan every five seconds, at best you will burn out, and at worst you will literally lose your mind.

Then there is fitting your ship for defense. Mackinaws are currently very good mining ships. They can be fitted for a decent tank that is likely to ward off or even foil gankers. But they are almost always fitted for yield, rather than tank. This is often viewed as an error on the part of the miner, but is it really? Certainly when you lose your Mackinaw to a gank squad you'll wish you had fitted it for tank. But If you weren't interested in mining efficiency, you wouldn't be flying a Mack to begin with! You'd fly a Skiff and spend twice the time emptying your ore hold. You have to figure out how much risk you are willing to take to improve your yield, and make sure the improved yield will compensate you for the additional risk.

Then there is the Procurer. As mentioned, it has nearly as good a tank as a Skiff. It's bargain priced at 1/3 of its current cost to build (because of pre-barge-buff stockpiling). It's cheap to fit because of its bonuses (buy one laser and get the yield of three). It's the number one ship I'd recommend for any newbie miner, just as soon as they can get trained for it. But for an older, more experienced miner looking for tank? Nope, get yourself a Skiff. Why? 200 m/s vs. 90 m/s max velocity! Mining is time-consuming enough without wasting time traveling.

Then there is system sec status. You are far more likely to be ganked in 0.5 than in 1.0, that much is true. But have you noticed the difference in the rocks? One of the drawbacks to the bonused single laser on Procurers and Skiffs is that you only mine one rock at a time. To avoid losing cycle time you need to use a scanner to keep track of how much rock is remaining and end your cycle early when the rock is gone. Bigger rocks = less laser cycle management. You're unlikely to lose even a barge to a ganker in 1.0, but neither will you be as productive.

These are just a few examples to illustrate that the answers to OP's questions are not all clear cut. Choose and fit your ship sensibly. Pay attention to local. Watch for suspicious characters. Pay attention to possible scouts. Dock before taking a bio break or fixing lunch. If a system is experiencing a lot of attention from gankers, MOVE. Budget for an occasional ship loss - it's what EVE is about. Have fun.
Mynutor
Black Box Technologies
#52 - 2013-04-25 11:16:23 UTC
The advice I've got here saved my butt yesterday. Smile

I was checking my D-scan (as I learned to do, thanks to this thread), when I suddenly see a catalyst. I start to move my miners out of the system, when I see combat probes quite near to me on d-scan. The moment I jump out the catalyst enters the system...

Good times. Big smile

Objective sighted. Target locked. Lasers activated. Pew-pew-pew. Die roid..., DIE!

Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2013-04-25 15:43:50 UTC
Not sure if this was mentioned already... Don't jet can mine, ever. Don't sit next to anything that can be Bookmarked and used against you as a warpin (asteroids, wrecks, cans). You can also orbit a rock; preferably not the one you happen to be mining. All you want to do is make yourself a difficult target, that's it. The more difficult you make yourself, the less likely you're going to get ganked. If a ganker warps in the belt at 0... they're new. Most of the time gankers are going to warp in on you at 0. However, if you're moving, far away from 'bookmarkable' objects, decent tank.. you'll probably be fine for awhile. There will always be the fleet of gankers... don't fit anything expensive; no faction, deadspace mods. Odds are you will not withstand a gank from multiple gankers at once, that's what Wes and some other people have wrote comes in about paying attention to local and watching out for local spikes.

What Wes wrote is great advice.

HTH

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

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