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ECM Overhauling

Author
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-28 04:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
The imps CRIES for NERF NERF NERF , OMG SO OP . I can't PvP derp derp . Caldari OP.


At first , people might ignore them as mere cry babies ... but perhaps ... there is a point inside that pile of dung.

The current jamming is based on chance. You are either jammed , or you are not .
Any introduction of chance into a game is a GAME BREAKER.



I therefore propose this.


When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.

Thus increasing his locking time.

When the jamming strength is larger or equal to his sensor strength.
His sensor strength will tends toward 0 and he will no longer be able to lock on.


Of course , there are also other ideas

MeBiatch wrote:
this is my idea for ecm:

Quote:
i came up with this nifty idea where ecm no longer breaks the lock of a ship but actually helps in determining the quality of a hit!

usually the chance to hit number is rated against x which is a random number generated between 0.001 to 1.0 which determind if a. the shot hits and b. how much damage the shot will do.

so the better your ships sensor strength the less damage is done to you and i fyou have enough ecm on you your sensor strenth goes down to 0 where shots can start doing wreking damage more often and less slightly hit..

it would take alot of work but i feel it would make ecm a balanced and not op game mechanic

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-03-28 04:49:20 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:


When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.

Thus increasing his locking time.


That's a remote sensor dampener.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-03-28 05:00:49 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.

Thus increasing his locking time.


That's a remote sensor dampener.


But a remote sensor dampening lengthen the times needed for you to lock on , a jammer gives the enemy a CHANCE of you not being able to lock on .

Both have a similar purpose of denying the enemy the chance of retaliation .
Both serves a similar purpose.
One is based on chance , the other is based on predictable mathematics.

And to remove the plague of probability , we MUST merge them together .

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#4 - 2013-03-28 05:08:40 UTC
Make it a reduction of max locked targets and you have something new. Probably needs a number lower than 1 per module.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-03-28 05:10:41 UTC
Just implement diminishing returns, resets every time the target warps out, problem solved.

also, wrong subforum.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#6 - 2013-03-28 05:19:28 UTC
In before move

Because everyone has their own opinion on the subject of ECM. How about instead of jamming

One of the modules targets high slots making them take longer to cycle
One of the modules targets mid slots making them cycle faster
One of the modules targets low slots making them cycle faster
One of the modules picks targets randomly between mid and low
One of the modules just gets removed

counter measures are now passive/buffer modules (since they can't be sped up) and fast cycling weapons. counter ecm is now a module that you activate that immediately turns off a module with no cycle penalty. Projected ECM adds a "charge" to a ship that soaks up an action of ECM. ECM now is 100% but chooses a slot at random.

Do appologise if this makes no sense, I am on painkiller medication.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#7 - 2013-03-28 05:48:24 UTC
Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......Oops


Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-03-28 05:54:47 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......Oops




There are , but the very notion of adding elements of chance to something is stupid .
Thats why I am advocating the merging of ECM and sensor damps

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-03-28 06:12:42 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......Oops




Chance based gameplay is bad.


If I wanted to test my luck I'd play the slot machine.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-03-28 06:17:18 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......Oops




Chance based gameplay is bad.


If I wanted to test my luck I'd play the slot machine.


Whenever I see people opposing change , I think of this cartoon

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#11 - 2013-03-28 06:40:48 UTC
There already was a change. Four of them, in fact:

Gravimetric sensor compensation skill
Magnetometric sensor compensation skill
Radar sensor compensation skill
LADAR sensor compensation skill

See? No extra modules required after all.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-28 06:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
There already was a change. Four of them, in fact:

Gravimetric sensor compensation skill
Magnetometric sensor compensation skill
Radar sensor compensation skill
LADAR sensor compensation skill

See? No extra modules required after all.



That is worse :P
Nerfing does it equal to fixing

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-03-28 09:06:37 UTC
ECM warfare has been overpowered in comparison to all other EWAR and needed a nerf for a long time now.

Now that the facts have been cleared up, how about discussing HOW that nerf should happen instead of IF?

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#14 - 2013-03-28 09:07:01 UTC
I say decrease the cycle time but lower the strength.

ECM hits more often but is less likely to succeed while also giving the target a chance to try re-locking sooner.

The Drake is a Lie

Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#15 - 2013-03-28 10:01:08 UTC
Get rid of ECM altogether. Lets have proper fleet fights where its just a mass brawl Cool

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........

saltrock0000
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-28 10:14:08 UTC
I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.

Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.

With these new sensor backup skills around now many more ships will have a higher sensor strength making them hard to jam, CCP have already nerfed the range of ECM into the ground as well as offering substantial buffs to ships sensors.

I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?

I remember the days of sitting out at almost 200km in a falcon jamming things then warping off and coming back doing the same as soon as tackle got close, that needed nerfing. Current mechanics are fine find something else to cry about, caldari are already pretty bad as it is!


Once ECM has been squashed I'd put money on the fact the cry-babies will set their eyes on sensor damps and arazu's scrambling and dampening a ship down blah blah....... If this trend of "balancing" continues we will all be flying yellow, blue, green and red space bricks all looking the same, fitting the same acting the same, ships and more importantly races need their "op" ships as a draw to that race.

\'''\<(o_O)>/'''/

Fearghaz Tiwas
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-03-28 12:10:01 UTC
saltrock0000 wrote:
I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.

Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.

With these new sensor backup skills around now many more ships will have a higher sensor strength making them hard to jam, CCP have already nerfed the range of ECM into the ground as well as offering substantial buffs to ships sensors.

I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?

I remember the days of sitting out at almost 200km in a falcon jamming things then warping off and coming back doing the same as soon as tackle got close, that needed nerfing. Current mechanics are fine find something else to cry about, caldari are already pretty bad as it is!


Once ECM has been squashed I'd put money on the fact the cry-babies will set their eyes on sensor damps and arazu's scrambling and dampening a ship down blah blah....... If this trend of "balancing" continues we will all be flying yellow, blue, green and red space bricks all looking the same, fitting the same acting the same, ships and more importantly races need their "op" ships as a draw to that race.



Well said that man. People love to get the nerf bat out as soon as something might mean they have to consider changing their play-style a little bit, it's bad for the game.
ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#18 - 2013-03-28 12:37:11 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
In before move

Because everyone has their own opinion on the subject of ECM. How about instead of jamming

One of the modules targets high slots making them take longer to cycle
One of the modules targets mid slots making them cycle faster
One of the modules targets low slots making them cycle faster
One of the modules picks targets randomly between mid and low
One of the modules just gets removed

counter measures are now passive/buffer modules (since they can't be sped up) and fast cycling weapons. counter ecm is now a module that you activate that immediately turns off a module with no cycle penalty. Projected ECM adds a "charge" to a ship that soaks up an action of ECM. ECM now is 100% but chooses a slot at random.

Do appologise if this makes no sense, I am on painkiller medication.


This is actually quite a good idea. Anti-module jammers that randomly turn something off.

Dodixie > Hek

Zindale
Spias Inc.
#19 - 2013-03-28 12:37:34 UTC
First this should of been posted in feature and ideas

To Start ECM chance base was brought in because everyone cried that ECM was over powered as the modules used to used it's attributes to jam a target. Then CCP brought in the chance base and still people cry

I say bring the old ECM back then modify the atributes to make ECM more in- line with other EWAR

Ravnik wrote:
Get rid of ECM altogether. Lets have proper fleet fights where its just a mass brawl Cool


As to to Ravnik if you are getting rid of ECM then you should get rid of ALL EWAR. then let see who starts crying when pvp'er can not lock down plays cause they have on scrams and webbies.

Lets be sensible about things here ECM is Part of the great fabric of Eve, all that is needed here is to make the ECM counters useful which can not happen if ECM stays chance base.

ECM has to go back to how it used to work and then make ECCM work as it is supposed to do.
ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#20 - 2013-03-28 12:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ElQuirko
saltrock0000 wrote:
I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?


This is a stupid thing to say. While I appreciate the sentiment, there is no reason to fit ECCM past defence against ECM modules, which you may not ever encounter in a fight. It's luck as to what the enemy brings.

This guy put it well, ages ago:

TheBreadMuncher wrote:

Because the only way to counter ECM is to fit to counter ECM. This completely gimps your fit, while at the same time means you've wasted a slot if you don't encounter ECM.

Let me put it this way:

Sensor dampening: You can fit a sensor booster, which also increases your scanres and lock range.
Energy neutralizing: You can fit a cap booster, which will be very useful for keeping you alive in any real fight.
Tracking disruption: You can web your enemy and fit more tracky ammo, both of which will mean you hit while disrupted.
Target painting: Lol. Man up and take slightly more damage.
Webbing: Gotta go fast.
Pointing: Commit to the fight.

Then we come to ECM:
ECM: Fit a gimpy module which only decreases the chance of you being locked down, not stops it, and wastes a slot because it has no other beneficial effect.


Let's not forget the fact that ECM dedicated ships have enough power to permajam most any subcap even if they do fit ECCM.

Dodixie > Hek

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