These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Skill Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

SP game breaking for new players. Please take your time to read this CCP.

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Velicitia
XS Tech
#421 - 2013-03-26 12:24:29 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Sebastion Heorod wrote:
Who remembers 10 Learning Skills
I remember 10 Learning Skills
I remember having to train up all 5 attributes
I remember having to train up to the current starting attributes
I remember partially training up to millions of skill points
I remember training for 1.5 months
I remember training just so my character would train as fast as a current starting character

The answer op is nothing
It has already been addressed
It was addressed with the Incursion patch
This happened at the beginning of 2011
Your main problem is that you don't understand the game



Yep this, I remember also having to train for over a month just to get the SP speed training you get from day one.


upside was we did get to modify where our points were (Caldari Achura research alt, anyone? Cool)

But yes, training right now is in a very good place.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#422 - 2013-03-26 12:28:23 UTC
you invited 4 friends too the game that all paid their sub you have 2 billion isk in your account, buy a higher SP character and go have fun!

 ♥ 
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2013-03-26 13:55:34 UTC
Sebastion Heorod wrote:
Who remembers 10 Learning Skills
I remember 10 Learning Skills
I remember having to train up all 5 attributes
I remember having to train up to the current starting attributes
I remember partially training up to millions of skill points
I remember training for 1.5 months
I remember training just so my character would train as fast as a current starting character

I was there.

Eve is real.
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#424 - 2013-03-26 19:29:59 UTC
I, for one, am looking forward to watching the new players of tomorrow slog their way through getting four racial BCs to 5. Twisted
Baggo Hammers
#425 - 2013-03-26 19:56:30 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to watching the new players of tomorrow slog their way through getting four racial BCs to 5. Twisted




Why would they? Most will pick a racial and stick to it. Those playing now have the chance to get all for minimum time due to the changes being made.
Realistically and practically, who needs to fly all race's BCs?

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#426 - 2013-03-26 20:23:47 UTC
Eve is a game about humility and humility is finding your role. You have to specialize. You can't do everything at once. You can do one thing very well within several months of training and until then everyone has their purpose. Don't be so entitled.
Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#427 - 2013-03-27 02:06:37 UTC
I remember getting up at 3 in the morning one time to train a skill. You young'ins have no idea how good you have it.
Signal11th
#428 - 2013-03-27 09:22:02 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to watching the new players of tomorrow slog their way through getting four racial BCs to 5. Twisted



Yep a new breed of moaners complaining how us old players have it sooo easy....

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#429 - 2013-03-27 10:21:44 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to watching the new players of tomorrow slog their way through getting four racial BCs to 5. Twisted


This is one thing I don't like at all about the skill change.

Ytterbium should have reduced racial Cruiser to rank 4 and racial Battlecruiser to rank 5 with the battlecruiser split IMO

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Velicitia
XS Tech
#430 - 2013-03-27 11:23:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Prekaz wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to watching the new players of tomorrow slog their way through getting four racial BCs to 5. Twisted


This is one thing I don't like at all about the skill change.

Ytterbium should have reduced racial Cruiser to rank 4 and racial Battlecruiser to rank 5 with the battlecruiser split IMO


yeah, that'd help out in the long run ... though keeping them "hard" helps force specialization.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#431 - 2013-03-27 13:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Destructor1792
To the Op - answers to each part of your post:

Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Hi,

So I have come to like more "mature" MMOS and eve struck me as one of the best.
I started playing 2 months ago and just lost all the friends I brought into eve.


Eve is certainly one of the best & unfortunate you lost your friends but that's part and parcel of life.. Maybe the game just didn't suit their playstyle?

Hefty TheFirst wrote:
This game is simply way too punishing for new players. Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training.
Then you have some of the basics and can still not do anything special.
My first month of eve was great... But it was all just theoretical fun. All I did was plan stuff and study about the game and it's mechanics. So I brought 4 of my friends in which all payed for 1 month + trial. They loved the first month of eve and into the seconds month they all saw just how truly pathetic they were in terms of SP. Everything they wanted to do was years of training away. I was going to quit as well until I heard of the character bazaar. So I dropped a huge load of $ to buy a pilot that could actually play the game.


  • What are you training that takes 1.5 years??
  • Some of the basics and can't do anything??? What are you trying to do?
  • Eve is like a game of chess - it takes alot of time, patience, tactics & well thought out plans. Some people have it, some don't.

    • EVE is not a "GO, GO, GO" game where everything has to be rushed through. Once the player understands that, they normally do just fine.
    It's the same with most games, some prefer certain games to other. You can't please everyone.
    And it was your choice to use the character bazaar, no-one elses. SP doesn't mean everything, Gaming Experience counts for alot more, so even with your new shiny character, you're gonna get r*ped as you haven't taken the time to learn how each mod works, piloting each ship, understanding the drawbacks of certain fits, ect, ect (could go on for ages with the list).


Hefty TheFirst wrote:
I am sure the long SP training ques are CCP's way of "milking" $ out of us.
Which proves a point to me. Every one that I have spoken to that plays eve has at least 1-4 alts.
So that in itself proves how low the game population actually is.
Now this isn't a troll or whining thread.
If CCP truly wanted to make more $ something needs to be done about SP.
The longer the game progresses the more useless new players become.
Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?


  • You're trying to compare two completely different games. WoW has a level cap & is defined by end game. EVE is not. (look up "Sandbox")

  • And again with the SP comment (I'm starting to think you don't like the SP side of this game)

  • Now unique players in the game? CCP states over 500k subscribers. Unique subscribers? Probably more in the 10-25k region, may be pushing 30k-40k on a good month so that point I partly agree with you on.

Hefty TheFirst wrote:
So this is as constructive as a new player can get.
I am not mad in any way. I actually want to help eve grow, that's the whole reason of this thread.
I want to know if anything is being done about the huge SP brick wall.
From what I am seeing the summer change is making it even harder for new players.
Battle cruisers were a huge win for new players as it didn't take too long to fly them and now it's even taking that small win away from new players.


  • And another SP comment (noticing a pattern here)
  • BC's are still a huge win for new players (suggest you read up about the upcoming skill changes and how they affect you)

Hefty TheFirst wrote:
So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?
Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?
This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?
I truly want to see this game grow so help me talk to the right people.
If I could talk to the right people I could really guarantee new players sticking around instead of getting discouraged and quitting.

Regards: Hefty

  • What huge problems? Please be more specific
  • There are two forum catagories where you can post concerns (Assembly Hall) or ideas (Features and idea discussions)
  • Greatness you ask? That needs to be earnt in this game - SO time and patience are your friend
  • Talk to the right people? You are (sort of). The player base has a big influence on the way this game evolves (good or bad)
  • Sorry, but the last comment of yours.. heard it all before. Players will only stick around if they enjoy the type of game they are playing. Plain and Simple.

Reading your whole post though, it seems you have a really big issue with SP!! You seem to want to have it all whilst putting in the least amount of time and effort to get that result & then by trying to justify that lots of friends have left the game!

Sorry, but that's not Eve. Yes, there are a few shortcuts to be had but "EXPERIENCE" is the big thing in this game, not "SP".

Not fired a shot in anger since 2011.... Trigger finger is starting to get somewhat itchy.......
Baggo Hammers
#432 - 2013-03-27 21:47:53 UTC
OP is long gone. Thread was hijacked by sensitive elf person then they left as well. Apparently every visit to skills forum requires posting in this thread.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#433 - 2013-03-28 02:48:23 UTC
OP has made a hasty retreat back to WoW... The day is saved!
Hoinus
Duty Free Exchange
#434 - 2013-03-28 07:42:57 UTC
This is coming from someone who's account didn't see action for over 1000 days. There really isn't that many new skills. There are only that many skills that will affect the specific things you want to do. CCP already made it easier for people by removing all the learning skills and I had the advance ones to mostly 5.
Drundory
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#435 - 2013-03-28 14:37:51 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Eve is a game about humility and humility is finding your role.


This. Because it is in human nature to grab and plan big when in it is not really possible some players think that starting small is not good. They just have to comprehend and accept that small is not bad. In EvE we have seen many many times that small is better.

When new players learn this they will be cool and happy. My first advice would be go small go effective ... then when you master small stuff move on. But as i said about human nature ... we do not accept easily to start small.

Because we are humans.
Joceline
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#436 - 2013-03-28 21:29:48 UTC
Eve actually provides ways to skip a lot of the years of SP learning through the character bazaar. While it takes some effort, you CAN do things like trading with low SP characters and make enough ISK to buy a good pvp pilot. And if you are ambitious enough to do that, you shouldn't have much problem learning to pvp. Or if you are rich you can just buy plex and get a character.

The amount of time it takes to learn to fly something well is definitely less then the amount of time it takes to train the SP. Maybe not for the first 10mil or so, but definitely after that. At first this seems harsh, until you realize that there are ways like I pointed out above to get ahead.

That's one of the things I love about this game. It's not easy, but even for new players there are ways to put yourself at the top of whatever you want to do in a rather short time period.

One of my favorite examples is Brave Newbies Inc. A guy that is new to the game comes in and within a short time period has one of the largest corps in eve. Regardless of what you think of the corp, he is now well known and probably has contacts with some of the largest alliances in the game. He can pretty much write his own ticket now wherever he goes in eve.


If you treat this game like any other game, and don't take the time to understand how different a real sandbox game actually is, you will probably end up leaving the game after a rather short time period. And sometimes it takes people several tries before it clicks. I tried eve no less then 3-4 times over a 5 year period before it stuck.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#437 - 2013-03-29 10:21:41 UTC
IIshira wrote:
OP has made a hasty retreat back to WoW... The day is saved!



Some of us came from WoW to play EvE, considering they have played games even more grueling games (MuDs or some old Asian grinders anyone?). So generalizations don't fit.

The OP has mentioned some things that are in fact a pain, that even the dinosaur MuDs have changed over the years (as EvE has, like removing the learning skills...remember?).

As EvE gets to the point that it's playerbase either ages more or more players come to the game there will be changes, as the time sinks of old are no longer needed (take for example corpse runs and equipment binds...they went the way of the Dodo, as it's timesink purpose no longer was needed).

EvE will always be a skills based game (nice), but there is a problem keeping players beyond two months, when the skills no longer can be leveled in a day, and it becomes 19+ days per skill. Just saying "get used to it" doesn't do much to attract and keep newer players (who learn they'll never catch up with the vets, a royal turnoff right at the gate). Somehow and somewhere some interesting mechanic would help keep those long waits bearable (i.e., perhaps some points that can be used to purchase something, so the player can see it's worthwhile to wait 19+ days for one skill to level).

The skill time doesn't need to change in itself, just some tangible reward that's worth the wait....5% off a setback is pretty difficult to wait on even for older grinder vets (and seeing the toons for sale too many just go the level 4 route [miner toons are true with this, unless they're a refiner...level 4 on ore processing right down the line. Why level when a 5% implant takes care that?).

So even in EvE folks take shortcuts to skill up, as it's pretty difficult to sit for 6 months in a dock (even veteran character sellers are interested in making some isk in their lifetime). Lol

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Neer Nolani
Albireo Solem
Pandemic Horde
#438 - 2013-03-29 12:10:28 UTC
>Focus less on SP
>Get a ship
>Enjoy the game
>Before you know it, you haz moar SP!1!! :3
Govind
Parity Labs
#439 - 2013-03-29 16:33:06 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The skill time doesn't need to change in itself, just some tangible reward that's worth the wait....5% off a setback is pretty difficult to wait on


The problem there sounds more like OCD. It's a diminishing return for which each player must make a cost-benefit analysis of if it is worth training. You don't NEED to train all of your skills to 5 even for your primary role. If as you said the reward of training something to 5 seems like it may not be worth it then DON'T, save it for when you feel you have nothing better to train.

The only changes I see as benefiting the EvE training system is simply more education for new players about prioritizing their skill training plans. If, as you mentioned, a two month player is training a lot of 19+ day skills they are not prioritizing well and are only holding themselves back.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#440 - 2013-03-29 19:16:47 UTC
CCP Needs to make Skill Bazaar where people can buy and sell skills.