Ships & Modules

To be a heavy anti-cruiser ship.

It is looking to have 30-36k EHP. and a Megathon's DPS. It is safe to say if a Nanocane or a Heavy Missile Drake get snagged in the 90% Web early they will drop much faster then a Talos. As for Frigs the Ships has a 90% Web and a 25m2 Drone Bay. It's base Speed Stats make me light headed, I love everything about this ship.

I hope to god they don't ban this thing or it's cousins from the HQ's.

If you want a picture of the Talos, imagine a boot stamping on a miner's face - forever.

Show your Work.

We will use this guys fit.



Cept replace the EX Pump with a Trimark and the Tracking Comp with a second Web.

So starting out close range how does a 75k EHP 400 DPS Drake Pull it off.

Fly around in it for a bit with lvl 1 BC just to enjoy myself and for kicks.

Fine, suppose I will just be flying the brutix around pretending its the new T3 BC.

I won't. I will be flying the Tornado.

The above fit is exactly what I used. Replacing the tracking computer does nothing. I doubt anyone would replace the ex pump with another trimark given how popular canes are (and soon to be tornadoes) so I won't slant the data by changing it.

[Drake, Drake fit]

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
[Empty High slot]

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive /OFFLINE
Warp Disruptor II

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

462 DPS with Scourge Furies (explosion radius 161 = full damage)
414 DPS with CN Scourge

Overheating both invulns gives 118K EHP vs void L (special case because it's 50/50 kn/th instead of usual 58%/42% of antimatter)

Estimating how long each will last against the other's dps is simple
118,000 / 1106 = ~106 seconds plus whatever recharge provides
39,000 / 462 = ~84 second

106/84 = ~Drake lasts about 26%+ longer than the Talos (orignal 15% estimation was without heat). Technically this means the Talos will always lose but I'm making allowances such as maybe you get a few lucky hits or maybe his skills aren't totally maxed or maybe you've got a few hybrid implants in.

"But wait" you say. "Most drakes I see are packing CN scourge! You're slanting the comparison!" Personally I would choose furies if I knew I would be attacking a close range BC unlikely to have an AB, but fair's fair:

39,000 / 414 = ~94 seconds. The fight's closer now, but the drake still has around a 12% longer expected lifetime plus whatever his passive regen is going to gain him. Not good for a blaster boat's best-case scenario. If you had to chase him any distance to grab him with your webs, you're toast. If he manages to jam you, you're toast. If you get anything less than slightly above average luck with the RNG on your damage rolls, you're toast.

"But wait! I'll overload my blasters! Hah!" Well blasters generate a lot of heat. Even if you manage to run them for the full minute-and-a-half-average it would take to kill a drake:
118,000 / 1220 = ~96 seconds (+ a few seconds to account for recharge)

And then he's likely to overheat his missiles:
39,000 / 487 (CN scourge) = ~80 seconds
39,000 / 544 (scourge fury) = ~71 seconds

His weapons generate more heat than yours do so he might stop overheating at some point making the numbers a tiny bit closer.

I can't speak to the use of a HAM drake, but DPS looks similar with a bit less EHP (101k vs void)

I hope these are put on the test server soon so the problem becomes more obvious. Drake is kind of the gold standard of battlecruisers, and to lose to a long range drake with a short range ship that gets a chance to apply all of its potential dps--and by a large margin-- is ridiculous. I'm partial to a drake nerf than a Talos buff personally


Doesn't look like it. A Tornado that doesn't spend a lot of time kiting will get destroyed by a Talos that manages to catch it. I only get around 31.5K EHP with a cane'ish shield setup vs void. It'll still be popular because it's fast though, although solo it's toast by anything that can catch it

A lot of great theory crafting for a fit over grid and massively over CPU.

Also way to take into account the Talos small Sig and good Speed when using inaccurate Fury's. The Talos will mitigate Dmg just by orbiting while the Massively over sig'd Drake won't budge.


Hahahahaha!

Thanks I needed that. Sometimes a joke is so bad it is funny.

My bad, LSEII -> Large F-S9. EHP reduced by 3k vs Void

New Numbers:

Ship doing killing: enemy EHP / killing DPS = approximate time
Talon: 115k / 1160 = 99 to kill drake (plus recharge)
Drake: 42.1k / 414 = 101 to kill talon (3 trimarks)
Drake: 38.2k / 414 = 92 to kill talon (2 trimarks)

Heat:
Talon: 115k / 1220 = 94
Drake: 42.1k / 487 = 86 (3 trimarks)
Drake: 38.2k / 487 = 78

It's a toss up before you even include drake's recharge, and not even a contest if the drake heats his guns.



While it's true that the Talos has a small sig and moving at that fit's top speed of 232 m/s would reduce fury damage by 22%, it would be a colossal tactical mistake to try and maximize speed with this ship using these guns, especially at your suggestion of removing the tracking computer. And if he's NOT using furies, you hack your own dps doing it for no gain anyway!

(with drone DPS removed, overheating)
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii371/Trigsby/talos_orbit_void.png
So if you orbit your target at any range, the very best you can hope to get out of your listed 1220 DPS is actually just a tad over 800. That's a mere 65% of your paper DPS. Fun fact: if you're at 4km and orbiting, you're dealing the dps of a drake, just with 65% less tank and 82% less range.

What if you keep a sharp angle (and thus low transversal)? Let's say you're only at a 30 degree angle. The best you can get is about 1075 DPS at 7km, a 12% reduction already.



At a 45degree angle, your blasters are maxing out at 600 dps at 4km and approximately 100 dps at 2km

In fact, even if your transversal is a mere 15 degrees, you still won't have the tracking to deal full listed dps unless he's at least seven kilometers away though you can stil deal a respectable 800 dps at 2km, ~1100 at 4km

So no, don't try and use your speed to avoid furies. It hurts you a heck of a lot more than it hurts him. Remember these are battleship weapons on a ship with no tracking bonus using ammo that (currently still has) a tracking penalty.


Hmmm ... To each his own. I think it's silly to toss away 10% of your survivability against the most common PvP weapons system and race. Especially when you're flying something that's best beaten from range where minmatar shine, and their long-range kiting ammo is 83% explosive damage