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Solution to Bot Mining

First post
Author
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-03-27 00:11:20 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Its rather easy actually... make a dueling option... you obviously can't turn it off or ignore it...

I roll up in a belt where I see a miner shooting at the roids.... I submit a duel request... now the other client gets the request but the answer boxes are all different... mox up the order... yes being the default with 10 or 15 sec countdown... boxes are Yes | NO | NO | NO

Player clicks no or decline I know it ain't a botter and you mix up the answer boxes. Next time it could be No | Yes | Yes | Yes



Obviously you don't understand a very simple concept.

Bots can be programmed to push a button. You're more likely to kill a real player via a misclick then you are to kill a bot once programmed correctly.

One thing I learned from another game (ffxi) is that many things done to reduce botting actually increased it. Add excessive/annoying clicks and you're more likely to drive legitimate miners away and leave only botters behind, because they're not bothered by excessive/annoying clicks.


You obviously didnt read the post... bots are made to look for certain functions... change the function or never have the same one... bot no worky... bot accepts a duel or doesnt answer the question then ship goes pop.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-03-27 05:37:19 UTC
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Its rather easy actually... make a dueling option... you obviously can't turn it off or ignore it...

I roll up in a belt where I see a miner shooting at the roids.... I submit a duel request... now the other client gets the request but the answer boxes are all different... mox up the order... yes being the default with 10 or 15 sec countdown... boxes are Yes | NO | NO | NO

Player clicks no or decline I know it ain't a botter and you mix up the answer boxes. Next time it could be No | Yes | Yes | Yes



Obviously you don't understand a very simple concept.

Bots can be programmed to push a button. You're more likely to kill a real player via a misclick then you are to kill a bot once programmed correctly.

One thing I learned from another game (ffxi) is that many things done to reduce botting actually increased it. Add excessive/annoying clicks and you're more likely to drive legitimate miners away and leave only botters behind, because they're not bothered by excessive/annoying clicks.


You obviously didnt read the post... bots are made to look for certain functions... change the function or never have the same one... bot no worky... bot accepts a duel or doesnt answer the question then ship goes pop.


I don't think you understand. You don't program the bot to click the first button, or at a certain X,Y position, you program it to click the 'yes' button or the 'no' button. That's why your option won't stop bots, they'll be programmed to push the correct button when the query comes up every time without fail. Who will get punished? The miner who went to go take a **** or answer the phone.

These programs are getting to be pretty accessible because software companies use them to do automated testing. I know my company uses selenium, and the advantage of using them is that if you change up the UI or layout it will still find and push the correct button when it's suppose to.

ie: the tools necessary to defeat your proposal are available on the web as open source as we speak, while punishing real life players who occasionally have to leave the keyboard
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-03-27 07:08:17 UTC
The bot battle will not end as long as there is in-game money to be made by boring tasks. Either you have to find a way to make the boring tasks not boring, just accept the bots as part of the game (in EQ2 besides new players I never saw anyone NOT bot crafting), in-game automate it like WOW crafting, or leave it how it is,let CCP kick them when they catch them, but unless their obvious they probably are not going to get caught.
The only other solution is to bump/gank people you suspect of botting. But if they are running the account 23/7 they are probably easily making the isk to replace their barge and clone even if you blast them hundreds of times. But atleast you have km to feel like your doing something about it.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-03-27 07:22:50 UTC
Mining bots are good for eve because they bring minerals to game , decreasing their price. as a result:
1) discourage horrible activity called mining
2) decrease prices on items

I just wrote little cron script that will launch at 7:00 - 15:00 and execute something for me. I don't feel like i did anything wrong.

repetitive, dumb activities should be automated and encouraged. there should be ingame tools for this and solutions should be available as contract items sold for ISK.
Prince Kobol
#65 - 2013-03-27 07:39:29 UTC
Corbin Cummings wrote:
If drones did not automatically go after Pirates/rat and each rat had to be manually targeted then mining barges could not survive. Therefore; making it impossible to BOT MINE. Or even AFK mine.

How about random Captcha to prove we are not bots.


How about CCP implement a rule stating that if you suggest the use of captcha you receive a life time ban?
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#66 - 2013-03-27 07:55:00 UTC
This topic has been moved to the Features & Ideas Discussion forum.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL

Josef Djugashvilis
#67 - 2013-03-27 08:16:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
ian papabear wrote:
never understood the driving force behind banning botters, doesnt affect my game.


Bots reduce miner income by at least 50%


Do you have any factual evidence to support your assertion?

This is not a signature.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-03-27 08:18:53 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
2) decrease prices on items
Just because you think that's a good thing,
doesn't mean it actually is a good thing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2013-03-27 08:24:04 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
ian papabear wrote:
never understood the driving force behind banning botters, doesnt affect my game.


Bots reduce miner income by at least 50%


Do you have any factual evidence to support your assertion?



Two ice interdiction results.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-03-27 08:24:24 UTC
got beaten to it.
Josef Djugashvilis
#71 - 2013-03-27 08:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.

This is not a signature.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2013-03-27 10:38:51 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.


Only we do have numbers. They are right there in the market records.
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#73 - 2013-03-27 10:52:09 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.


Yah and before they started to do the bot banning, isk for trit was only 2 isk a m3 and plexes where half the cost they were now. Roll

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Velicitia
XS Tech
#74 - 2013-03-27 12:43:15 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.


Yah and before they started to do the bot banning, isk for trit was only 2 isk a m3 and plexes where half the cost they were now. Roll



trit was 2-3 ISK/unit because of (at various times)

shuttles (source since removed)
drone poo (source since removed)
trash drops (source since removed)
bots (trit's still 5 isk/unit these days even with however many bots are missed)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-03-27 20:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
Velicitia wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.


Yah and before they started to do the bot banning, isk for trit was only 2 isk a m3 and plexes where half the cost they were now. Roll



trit was 2-3 ISK/unit because of (at various times)

shuttles (source since removed)
drone poo (source since removed)
trash drops (source since removed)
bots (trit's still 5 isk/unit these days even with however many bots are missed)



Bot banning was declared 2012 03 01, according to graphs, almost one month and 7 days later, trit price has raised up by 1-2 isk. Then the next month, the prices hold steady at around 5 to 6 isk per unit, despite the total volume being at it LOWEST of all year.

all info was gathered from here: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history I set history at the past 395 days from the time of this post.

Slowly though trit prices has leveled off

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Dave Stark
#76 - 2013-03-27 22:40:34 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Bot banning was declared 2012 03 01, according to graphs, almost one month and 7 days later, trit price has raised up by 1-2 isk. Then the next month, the prices hold steady at around 5 to 6 isk per unit, despite the total volume being at it LOWEST of all year.

all info was gathered from here: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history I set history at the past 395 days from the time of this post.

Slowly though trit prices has leveled off


did you even read the data in your own link? 1-2 isk? less than one isk.
4.73 - 5.63, that's an increase of 0.9 isk.

not to mention, april was when hulkageddon was going on (according to a quick google). hence, the low volume.

in short, none of this evidence proves anything about bots, banning of bots, or anything even remotely relevant to this thread.
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-03-27 23:16:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Bot banning was declared 2012 03 01, according to graphs, almost one month and 7 days later, trit price has raised up by 1-2 isk. Then the next month, the prices hold steady at around 5 to 6 isk per unit, despite the total volume being at it LOWEST of all year.

all info was gathered from here: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history I set history at the past 395 days from the time of this post.

Slowly though trit prices has leveled off


did you even read the data in your own link? 1-2 isk? less than one isk.
4.73 - 5.63, that's an increase of 0.9 isk.

not to mention, april was when hulkageddon was going on (according to a quick google). hence, the low volume.

in short, none of this evidence proves anything about bots, banning of bots, or anything even remotely relevant to this thread.



Then I will ask you, when provided a 800 day review, why is it that the only month that the mineral supply for trit was the lowest? Hulkageddon didn't last the entire month, it lasted for like..A week AT MOST before it got old, next do you think that was the only time hulkageddon happen in the life of this game? If so you are sorely mistaken. If you go back 999 days, the max that the data goes back to, that month is still in fact the LOWEST. Proof? I provided the proof, now it your turn to believe in it.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Velicitia
XS Tech
#78 - 2013-03-28 00:00:47 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Solstice Project, thank you for your well thought out and considered reply.

Fact: No one actually knows with any degree of certainty how much mineral prices are affected by botting.

Made up figures based on virtually no evidence are just that and no more.

I hope this helps folk 'who lack higher cognitive abilities'

Edit. Sorry, your original post seems to have disappeared.


Yah and before they started to do the bot banning, isk for trit was only 2 isk a m3 and plexes where half the cost they were now. Roll



trit was 2-3 ISK/unit because of (at various times)

shuttles (source since removed)
drone poo (source since removed)
trash drops (source since removed)
bots (trit's still 5 isk/unit these days even with however many bots are missed)



Bot banning was declared 2012 03 01, according to graphs, almost one month and 7 days later, trit price has raised up by 1-2 isk. Then the next month, the prices hold steady at around 5 to 6 isk per unit, despite the total volume being at it LOWEST of all year.

all info was gathered from here: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history I set history at the past 395 days from the time of this post.

Slowly though trit prices has leveled off



bot banning (or at least the newest iteration of it) may have been admitted to then ... but there has been a number of other bot culling actions in the past (usually an "unholy rage" style mass ban). These days the banning is fewer people at a time, but a steady rate.

perhaps you should look at everything though:

Crucible and Inferno came out a few months before, and a few months after that date -- these two expansions effectively removed the ability to "gunmine" via Meta0 mission drops and drone poo.

Retribution has made nearly all of the T1 ships require a LOT more material.

In the course of the past eighteen months, there have been MASSIVE changes to both the supply side (reduced) and demand side (increased), after 2-4 YEARS of stagnation, and incentives to not mine (Incursions, etc).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Karzie
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-03-28 01:39:25 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Bot banning was declared 2012 03 01, according to graphs, almost one month and 7 days later, trit price has raised up by 1-2 isk. Then the next month, the prices hold steady at around 5 to 6 isk per unit, despite the total volume being at it LOWEST of all year.

all info was gathered from here: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history I set history at the past 395 days from the time of this post.

Slowly though trit prices has leveled off


did you even read the data in your own link? 1-2 isk? less than one isk.
4.73 - 5.63, that's an increase of 0.9 isk.

not to mention, april was when hulkageddon was going on (according to a quick google). hence, the low volume.

in short, none of this evidence proves anything about bots, banning of bots, or anything even remotely relevant to this thread.



Then I will ask you, when provided a 800 day review, why is it that the only month that the mineral supply for trit was the lowest? Hulkageddon didn't last the entire month, it lasted for like..A week AT MOST before it got old, next do you think that was the only time hulkageddon happen in the life of this game? If so you are sorely mistaken. If you go back 999 days, the max that the data goes back to, that month is still in fact the LOWEST. Proof? I provided the proof, now it your turn to believe in it.



You need to recheck your info, Hulkageddon V unholy union lasted a month offically and took down a lot lof ships. It was then extended by The Mittani of goonswarm who was still willing to pay gankers 100mil for every 10 exhumers that they took down.
It was only with the upgrades to the mining vessels that ganking stopped in a lot of areas and New Order with its idea of bumping took over.

Hulkageddon V Killboard

DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-03-28 01:53:48 UTC
Karzie wrote:
snip




of course the rest of my response is ignored. Well, I provided my point, oh well I don't care if you don't believe me.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”