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EvE Online: Odyssey!!!

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#461 - 2013-03-26 22:10:34 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:

I'm not trolling, simply because your opinion differs from mine is no reason to resort to slander. Either defend your argument in a logical fashion, or concede that you can only disparage.



There is simply no argument to defend.

I state facts and quote sources.

YOU do not.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#462 - 2013-03-26 22:12:07 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Lots of assumptions about the mechanics, when the real problem is, even CCP doesn't know how it works...Lol




Why does this not sound very implausible to me?Lol

because they've pretty much admitted to similar things before? ie, a few years ago when they made a comment about fixing POSs, they backed off by flat out admitting the coding as it was originally done was too complex for them, and the guy who had originally written the code no longer worked for them so they couldn't just assign him to work on it :P



The antiquated code has nothing to do with 'CCP being confused' over the simple mechanic of cans in spawn sites.

Not even similar.

Now you are just insulting the Devs.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#463 - 2013-03-26 22:12:45 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
I'm not trolling, simply because your opinion differs from mine is no reason to resort to slander. Either defend your argument in a logical fashion, or concede that you can only disparage.
Yours is an opinion.
His is a fact.

If you don't believe it, then ask in HelpChat, or the Modules-forum or write a petition and ask a GM.

everyone, including the GMs, can be wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, though I don't believe I am. Regardless, I am not trolling nor attempting to misinform anyone, simply relating what conclusions I have drawn about this based upon my own observations... ever hear of the scientific method?



Now you are REALLY insulting the Devs.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#464 - 2013-03-26 22:41:50 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
I'm not trolling, simply because your opinion differs from mine is no reason to resort to slander. Either defend your argument in a logical fashion, or concede that you can only disparage.
Yours is an opinion.
His is a fact.

If you don't believe it, then ask in HelpChat, or the Modules-forum or write a petition and ask a GM.

everyone, including the GMs, can be wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, though I don't believe I am. Regardless, I am not trolling nor attempting to misinform anyone, simply relating what conclusions I have drawn about this based upon my own observations... ever hear of the scientific method?

So then you should have records of your experience across various levels of the skill comparing loot site for site, correct?

Why would I take the time to make such records when at the time I had no reason to? I don't purposely set out to conduct research, just when I find it appropriate I pay attention to what is going on to be able to do better myself within the game. My mind, as the saying goes, is my best tool.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#465 - 2013-03-26 22:43:10 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
I'm not trolling, simply because your opinion differs from mine is no reason to resort to slander. Either defend your argument in a logical fashion, or concede that you can only disparage.
Yours is an opinion.
His is a fact.

If you don't believe it, then ask in HelpChat, or the Modules-forum or write a petition and ask a GM.

everyone, including the GMs, can be wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, though I don't believe I am. Regardless, I am not trolling nor attempting to misinform anyone, simply relating what conclusions I have drawn about this based upon my own observations... ever hear of the scientific method?

So then you should have records of your experience across various levels of the skill comparing loot site for site, correct?

Why would I take the time to make such records when at the time I had no reason to? I don't purposely set out to conduct research, just when I find it appropriate I pay attention to what is going on to be able to do better myself within the game. My mind, as the saying goes, is my best tool.



Just stop.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#466 - 2013-03-26 22:45:03 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:

So then you should have records of your experience across various levels of the skill comparing loot site for site, correct?

Why would I take the time to make such records when at the time I had no reason to? I don't purposely set out to conduct research, just when I find it appropriate I pay attention to what is going on to be able to do better myself within the game. My mind, as the saying goes, is my best tool.



Just stop.[/quote]
You could take your own advice
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#467 - 2013-03-26 22:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Pelea Ming wrote:

You could take your own advice


You are such the 12 year old.

I was going to put a Bounty on you, but yours is already high enough.

And we can all understand with your attitude why you have been in (kicked from) 14 Corps in the last 2 years, including "Trolls Under the Bridge".

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#468 - 2013-03-26 23:20:42 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The problem is, that removing one man's tedious is another man's dumbing down.


I can quote an exact process here.

1) find configuration online
2) launch to new location
3) move to safe spot
4) launch probes (enough for configuration)
5) move all to center (using shift drag)
6) arrange into configuration
7) center probes around blip (using shift drag)
8) size down probes (shift drag and alt drag) so they look smaller
9) scan
10) if less than 100% goto 7
11) get bacon

Not a lot of thinking in the above. It's not like the locations fight back or change the parameters as you scan. That's tedium. It's playing the same chess game over and over again when you know how your opponent will move. Maybe it has more than one move set, but once you've seen all the possible moves, it's the same each and every time. That's the very definition of tedium.


Scanning novices. When you reach master status like those of us who scan 100s of signatures a day then you will learn that your fumbling attempts to scan signatures can be much improved using knowledge and skills only possessed by true scanning masters. I would tell you these techniques but then I'd have to kill you.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#469 - 2013-03-26 23:23:37 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:


I have my graphics on the minimum also. Was just replying to the poster above who was complaining about the graphics.


*gives hugs* it's ok, given time we will all someday be able to set some decent graphics for this :)


For now we will just have to watch the trailers and hope. :)

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Would graphics improvements mean getting rid of the damn clouds in missions, anomalies, and exploration sites?


Nope, unfortunately those annoying clouds are still present even on the minimum settings.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#470 - 2013-03-26 23:24:28 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:

You could take your own advice


You are such the 12 year old.

I was going to put a Bounty on you, but yours is already high enough.

And we can all understand with your attitude why you have been in (kicked from) 14 Corps in the last 2 years, including "Trolls Under the Bridge".

Slander much? Trolls under the Bridge was actually a corp I formed and disbanded, and I haven't been kicked from any corp I've been a member of, ever, I chose to leave each of them. If your going to attempt to make accusations, why not take the time to actually do the research to back them up first? And, please, add to my bounty, I find it rather ludicrous as is.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#471 - 2013-03-26 23:29:43 UTC
Roime wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The problem is, that removing one man's tedious is another man's dumbing down.


I can quote an exact process here.

1) find configuration online
2) launch to new location
3) move to safe spot
4) launch probes (enough for configuration)
5) move all to center (using shift drag)
6) arrange into configuration
7) center probes around blip (using shift drag)
8) size down probes (shift drag and alt drag) so they look smaller
9) scan
10) if less than 100% goto 7
11) get bacon

Not a lot of thinking in the above. It's not like the locations fight back or change the parameters as you scan. That's tedium. It's playing the same chess game over and over again when you know how your opponent will move. Maybe it has more than one move set, but once you've seen all the possible moves, it's the same each and every time. That's the very definition of tedium.


lol

Exact process:

1) launch probe, move to place x 8
2) scan
3) move
4) resize
5) scan
6) bookmark / warp to location

You scan faster with experience and dealing with doubles, rings and spheres requires at least some thinking. Good scanner finds a route in matter of minutes, bad scanner wastes 45 min to the same job. It's not just dependant on character skills. I've seen level IV scanners struggle.

D-scanner separates the good from the bad even more efficiently.

Both tools could use serious usability improvements, but simplifying the mechanics themselves is really difficult while still maintaining the importance of player skill.


Exactly ^ There is a reason why your probes show spheres and rings in their results. Also there is a reason why signatures have different strengths, and learning to recognise the typical characteristics of scanning signatures will turn a novice into a master.

Also advanced techniques require 8 probe setups which I am sure most the people complaining about scanning don't know about.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#472 - 2013-03-26 23:31:42 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Roime wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The problem is, that removing one man's tedious is another man's dumbing down.


I can quote an exact process here.

1) find configuration online
2) launch to new location
3) move to safe spot
4) launch probes (enough for configuration)
5) move all to center (using shift drag)
6) arrange into configuration
7) center probes around blip (using shift drag)
8) size down probes (shift drag and alt drag) so they look smaller
9) scan
10) if less than 100% goto 7
11) get bacon

Not a lot of thinking in the above. It's not like the locations fight back or change the parameters as you scan. That's tedium. It's playing the same chess game over and over again when you know how your opponent will move. Maybe it has more than one move set, but once you've seen all the possible moves, it's the same each and every time. That's the very definition of tedium.


lol

Exact process:

1) launch probe, move to place x 8
2) scan
3) move
4) resize
5) scan
6) bookmark / warp to location

You scan faster with experience and dealing with doubles, rings and spheres requires at least some thinking. Good scanner finds a route in matter of minutes, bad scanner wastes 45 min to the same job. It's not just dependant on character skills. I've seen level IV scanners struggle.

D-scanner separates the good from the bad even more efficiently.

Both tools could use serious usability improvements, but simplifying the mechanics themselves is really difficult while still maintaining the importance of player skill.


Exactly ^ There is a reason why your probes show spheres and rings in their results. Also there is a reason why signatures have different strengths, and learning to recognise the typical characteristics of scanning signatures will turn a novice into a master.

Also advanced techniques require 8 probe setups which I am sure most the people complaining about scanning don't know about.

*grins* I don't know how many I've run across personally who claim to know it all about probing and insist to me that all you ever need is just 4 probes
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#473 - 2013-03-26 23:33:07 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:

*grins* I don't know how many I've run across personally who claim to know it all about probing and insist to me that all you ever need is just 4 probes


^ Exacly :) And it seems a lot of them are on these forums.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#474 - 2013-03-26 23:39:47 UTC
dibs on the fleece.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#475 - 2013-03-26 23:40:49 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
dibs on the fleece.

but, but, it's gold! It's a SHINEY! MIIINEEE!!!!!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#476 - 2013-03-26 23:43:13 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
. If your going to attempt to make accusations, why not take the time to actually do the research to back them up first?



Great idea to take your own advice here instead of making preposterous claims.

Troll, most indeed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#477 - 2013-03-26 23:44:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
. If your going to attempt to make accusations, why not take the time to actually do the research to back them up first?



Great idea to take your own advice here instead of making preposterous claims.

Troll, most indeed.

Right, and I hereby welcome yet another idiot to my block list.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#478 - 2013-03-27 02:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
really interesting read:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/25/pax-east-2013-an-interview-with-eve-onlines-jon-lander/

article is based on an interview with Jon Lander.


more info about next expansion not necessarily more specific on details but worth the time.

Two really interesting quotes from article:

Quote 1: "This also plays into the redistribution of resources. As it stands now, getting resources isn't necessarily easy, but it is tedious. Knowledge about where to get things is all very public. No one needs to explore or find new ways to get certain metals. It leads to a static game state, and that's the opposite of what EVE should be about."

Quote 2: "So the team is getting rid of that sense. You should be exploring and looking for new ways to get things, not falling into the same old ruts, and old alliances should decay and split. It's a natural progression."

bolded what i feel is really important in the second quote.

Guess that means to expect major changes in the next few expansions about on how things are doneShockedWhat??

If that is the direction that CCP choses to take with EVE then expect major tears and whining in forums...ShockedBig smileLolBear

Gotta get bucket ready to collect major tearsAttentionCool
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#479 - 2013-03-27 05:15:14 UTC
In the "rebalancing of resources" and these comments about tediousness..... I STRONGLY urge CCP to move cautiously. A HUGE portion of their player base are casual players that like to log in for an hour or two, do low stress things that many may consider tedious, while avoiding direct conflict or having to fight for resources... then log back out.

Relaxed, stress free, is the play style of a great many.

If this is the tedious that CCP seeks to remove, I fear it will have devastating effects on the subscription rates. I know I personally won't need 4 accounts, if gathering minerals becomes more about spending hours failing to find anything scanning.. then happenstance lucky hit before rushing to grab the limited resources before someone else grabs them.

I enjoy playing EVE as it exists now, and would hate to see significant changes that result in me no longer playing.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#480 - 2013-03-27 05:22:19 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Lots of assumptions about the mechanics, when the real problem is, even CCP doesn't know how it works...Lol




Why does this not sound very implausible to me?Lol

because they've pretty much admitted to similar things before? ie, a few years ago when they made a comment about fixing POSs, they backed off by flat out admitting the coding as it was originally done was too complex for them, and the guy who had originally written the code no longer worked for them so they couldn't just assign him to work on it :P


Actually as I've come to understand it, it was more that one of the original programmers decided to obfuscate his code. So sorry, but you're kinda wrong.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.