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Will training Galente Cruiser LVL3 now allow me to 'exploit' the upcoming BC skill changes?
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Darzia Bien
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-03-26 18:51:14 UTC
Yeah, so having just read the dev blog my understanding is as follows:

If you have Battlecruiser Lvl 5 now (which I do) and also the racial cruiser skill to level 3 or above, you will receive the racial battlecruiser skill at Lvl 5 to reflect the fact you could fly these ships at that skill level before.

So, currently I stand to gain Caldari, Amarr, and Minmatar Battlecruiser at Lvl 5, as I have the racial cruiser skills to 4, 5, 4 respectively.

Would it not be prudent to train up to Gallente Cruiser Lvl 3 now, thereby gaining Gallente Battlecruiser Lvl 5 in the Summer? Would that be considered exploitative, and if so what can/will CCP do about it?

Devs/moderators: This isn't an aggressive question, I'm just pointing out that for a few hours training now, I can be flying Gallente BC's around like a badass in a few months time, for relatively less time investment then would previously have been the case.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-03-26 18:52:08 UTC
Darzia Bien wrote:
Yeah, so having just read the dev blog my understanding is as follows:

If you have Battlecruiser Lvl 5 now (which I do) and also the racial cruiser skill to level 3 or above, you will receive the racial battlecruiser skill at Lvl 5 to reflect the fact you could fly these ships at that skill level before.

So, currently I stand to gain Caldari, Amarr, and Minmatar Battlecruiser at Lvl 5, as I have the racial cruiser skills to 4, 5, 4 respectively.

Would it not be prudent to train up to Gallente Cruiser Lvl 3 now, thereby gaining Gallente Battlecruiser Lvl 5 in the Summer? Would that be considered exploitative, and if so what can/will CCP do about it?

Devs/moderators: This isn't an aggressive question, I'm just pointing out that for a few hours training now, I can be flying Gallente BC's around like a badass in a few months time, for relatively less time investment then would previously have been the case.


No, it's not exploitative. Lots of people are doing it, including myself.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Darzia Bien
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-03-26 18:54:34 UTC
Good. Obviously now I have BC 5 I will have access to them as soon as I have Gallente (TWO L'S DARZIA YOU TOOL) cruiser Lvl 3 anyways - but it feels cheap all the same. Like receiving a free LVL 5 skill that I haven't truly 'earned'. Not that I care!
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-03-26 18:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
Darzia Bien wrote:
Good. Obviously now I have BC 5 I will have access to them as soon as I have Gallente (TWO L'S DARZIA YOU TOOL) cruiser Lvl 3 anyways - but it feels cheap all the same. Like receiving a free LVL 5 skill that I haven't truly 'earned'. Not that I care!


It's just the way CCP is choosing to handle it. They could have simply refunded the SP and made you retrain the racial skills instead, but I expect that would have caused another shoot the statue type reaction.

Edit:

It was also the only way they could keep the "If you can fly it today, you can fly it tomorrow" promise they made, as far as I know.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-03-26 19:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.

You don't have Gallente Cruiser III, so you can't fly the Brutix, Myrmidon, or Talos. If you get Gallente Cruiser III you'll have the max skill to fly any of those ships because you already have Battlecruisers V. So I'm not sure what you think you're gaining here that you wouldn't already have.

This is exactly what I did and what tens of thousands of EVE players are doing or have already done.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-03-26 19:02:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.


I think the reason he's asking is because, IIRC, the level requirement for cruisers is going down from 4 to 3. So if you only train cruisers to 3, you CAN'T fly the battlecruisers now, but you would, supposedly, be able to fly them then.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-03-26 19:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
De'Veldrin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.


I think the reason he's asking is because, IIRC, the level requirement for cruisers is going down from 4 to 3. So if you only train cruisers to 3, you CAN'T fly the battlecruisers now, but you would, supposedly, be able to fly them then.

No, the requirement is currently at 3 and it will stay there.

E.g. the skill requirements for the Talos are Gallente Cruiser III and Battlecruisers III. With the summer expansion the skill requirements will become Gallente Battlecruiser I, the prerequisites for which are Gallente Cruiser III and Spaceship Command III.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Darzia Bien
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-03-26 19:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Darzia Bien
De'Veldrin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.


I think the reason he's asking is because, IIRC, the level requirement for cruisers is going down from 4 to 3. So if you only train cruisers to 3, you CAN'T fly the battlecruisers now, but you would, supposedly, be able to fly them then.


I'm talking about the gaining of an entire LVL 5 and all the corresponding SP that will bring - I assume it isn't going to count as a '0 SP' skill if you qualify for it when the changes come around?

EDIT: In fact, in my case 3 LVL 5 skills.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-03-26 19:08:01 UTC
Darzia Bien wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.


I think the reason he's asking is because, IIRC, the level requirement for cruisers is going down from 4 to 3. So if you only train cruisers to 3, you CAN'T fly the battlecruisers now, but you would, supposedly, be able to fly them then.


I'm talking about the gaining of an entire LVL 5 and all the corresponding SP that will bring - I assume it isn't going to count as a '0 SP' skill if you qualify for it when the changes come around?

EDIT: In fact, in my case 3 LVL 5 skills.

Yeah, assuming you get the full "reimbursement" you get 6,144,000 SP, but so what? You're not getting anything that you didn't already have before, technically. The only real difference is that you won't have to retrain skills to fly the ships you currently can, and your clone might cost more than it does now.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Darzia Bien
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-26 19:11:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Darzia Bien wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Uh, that's not exploitative at all, because that's exactly what you get now if you train the skill. You're not getting anything new.


I think the reason he's asking is because, IIRC, the level requirement for cruisers is going down from 4 to 3. So if you only train cruisers to 3, you CAN'T fly the battlecruisers now, but you would, supposedly, be able to fly them then.


I'm talking about the gaining of an entire LVL 5 and all the corresponding SP that will bring - I assume it isn't going to count as a '0 SP' skill if you qualify for it when the changes come around?

EDIT: In fact, in my case 3 LVL 5 skills.

Yeah, assuming you get the full "reimbursement" you get 6,144,000 SP, but so what? You're not getting anything that you didn't already have before, technically. The only real difference is that you won't have to retrain skills to fly the ships you currently can, and your clone might cost more than it does now.


I'm getting SP that people who later start the game won't - they will have to train them like we did. Assuming the skills will still have the same multiplier, we're talking 20-25 days to train it depending on implants - PER LVL 5. Three of them.

I haven't read the blog in detail, it may be the case that the skills will actually have a lower multiplier and as such are quicker to train?
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-03-26 19:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
De'Veldrin wrote:
Darzia Bien wrote:
Yeah, so having just read the dev blog my understanding is as follows:

If you have Battlecruiser Lvl 5 now (which I do) and also the racial cruiser skill to level 3 or above, you will receive the racial battlecruiser skill at Lvl 5 to reflect the fact you could fly these ships at that skill level before.

So, currently I stand to gain Caldari, Amarr, and Minmatar Battlecruiser at Lvl 5, as I have the racial cruiser skills to 4, 5, 4 respectively.

Would it not be prudent to train up to Gallente Cruiser Lvl 3 now, thereby gaining Gallente Battlecruiser Lvl 5 in the Summer? Would that be considered exploitative, and if so what can/will CCP do about it?

Devs/moderators: This isn't an aggressive question, I'm just pointing out that for a few hours training now, I can be flying Gallente BC's around like a badass in a few months time, for relatively less time investment then would previously have been the case.


No, it's not exploitative. Lots of people are doing it, including myself.


Exactly what I was going to say. This isn't even REMOTELY close to an exploit. Infact, CCP devs have repeatedly said "Heres the change, start training, take advantage of it." Quite the opposite of an exploit.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-03-26 19:17:11 UTC
Darzia Bien wrote:

I haven't read the blog in detail, it may be the case that the skills will actually have a lower multiplier and as such are quicker to train?

Yes, the new skills will have lower multipliers and will be easier to train.

But, overall, training all races to level 5 in their respective battlecruiser skills (or destroyer skills) will take more SP than the current generic placeholder skill. As such, it is of interest if you intend to fly those ships to have all the prerequisite skills in place so you will gain the individual racial ship skills when the conversion is done.
Commander Spurty
#13 - 2013-03-26 19:18:57 UTC
If exploits like "having to pay more for your medical clone sooner" is an exploit, then sure.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
#14 - 2013-03-26 19:35:07 UTC
Hm... I think i can fly all racial ships up to BS and almost all T2 variants allready... So what do us oldtimers gain from these changes? Blink

I allready have a lil stockpile of skillpoints in reserve.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-03-26 19:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Fractal Muse wrote:
Darzia Bien wrote:

I haven't read the blog in detail, it may be the case that the skills will actually have a lower multiplier and as such are quicker to train?

Yes, the new skills will have lower multipliers and will be easier to train.

But, overall, training all races to level 5 in their respective battlecruiser skills (or destroyer skills) will take more SP than the current generic placeholder skill. As such, it is of interest if you intend to fly those ships to have all the prerequisite skills in place so you will gain the individual racial ship skills when the conversion is done.


Can you quote your source on the multipliers being reduced? I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere and at last check the opposite was stated.

Edit:
Dev Blog wrote:

The Destroyers skill will be removed from the game and replaced with Amarr Destroyer, Caldari Destroyer, Gallente Destroyer, Minmatar Destroyer. Same with the Battlecruisers skill, being removed and swapped with Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser and Minmatar Battlecruiser. The new skills will have the same ranks and attributes than the old generic ones.
Skorpynekomimi
#16 - 2013-03-26 19:36:17 UTC
Yes, it is exploitative, and that's exactly why you should do it. And exactly why we're being encouraged and flat-out told to.

Economic PVP
Demolishar
United Aggression
#17 - 2013-03-26 19:36:20 UTC
I've done it on 23 characters lol.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#18 - 2013-03-26 19:46:18 UTC
Mother of GOD!!!!!

Welcome to 2013. What blackhole have you been living in for the past 6 months?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-03-26 21:06:27 UTC
Yeah, we are no longer allowed to train any cruiser skills for the next few months... Sad

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#20 - 2013-03-26 21:14:39 UTC
Seems I'll be the only person to avoid this.

I suppose you could call it an exploit in that it would help you to sooner get into corporations that have arbitrary skill point requirements to join.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

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