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Is "Blue Donut" Misleading?
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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-03-26 15:57:47 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.

I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.


Apparently you've been under a rock lately.

HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.

Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.


Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dash Bishop
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-03-26 16:03:45 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.


Valid points.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.

Caldari Militia ☜✫☞
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-03-26 16:06:35 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.


Valid points.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.


It's certainly scripted like one.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#24 - 2013-03-26 16:07:01 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.


Valid points.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.


Eve Reality, Best reality? I was there and all..Shocked

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#25 - 2013-03-26 16:38:29 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:


Just to respond to your points.

A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"

The two relevant coalitions are. Sure, there are other alliances and coalitions in eve, but they aren't more than a bump in the road to the two tech coalitions. There are also renters as income, but renters are basically the same as tech moons. As long as structures aren't getting shot, they're not at risk.

B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.

No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days.


And this is where you destroy your own argument. By that narrow definition of pvp, there has NEVER been any pvp in EVE except 2 noobs 1v1ing in Rifters with 0 isk in their wallets. When i was in faciton warfare, the FW missions paid so much (even in the beginning) that I could through drake after drake after megathron after megathron at the Squids (Caldari) that I never had to blink. Litterally 1 afternoon of missions kept me in ships for week.

Same as now with high sec incursions funding what null sec pvp i do sometimes participate in.

It doesn't make sense. PVP is "player vs player", not "player vs player for some reason some dude on a forum finds acceptable". Everytime a player blows up another player under any circumstances, that pvp whether you like it or not.

Their is plenty of pvp going on, there's even sov grinding going on. The "2 big coalitions" are noting new, it was the same way back when it was "the universe vs BoB" and Russians+friends Vs the old NC.
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#26 - 2013-03-26 17:41:45 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net.

Shooting inanimate structures is REAL PVP.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-03-26 17:47:19 UTC
"Everything is true, from a certain point of view." --- That Guy.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-03-26 18:16:19 UTC
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with all the goodness of nullsecbear alts mining with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut.


Someone has taken a bit out of it though, there's a big chunk missing north of the Outer Ring.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-03-26 18:18:10 UTC
Doughnuts usually have a hollow centre. Boston Creams, Longjohns, and Creampies are just fanciful pastry creations given the name of doughnut based on the style they are cooked in.

Therefore, no, the name is not misleading at all, and actually rather accurate, as the 'blue doughnut' in Eve, forms a 0.0 ring around much of highsec.

0/10.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-26 18:30:53 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:

You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.

Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.

Riddle me this

Why are cap escalations, paying hundreds of millions in isk per hour, OK. To the tune of welping a dread 5 guardians a Bhaal and 20 shiny T3's being "acceptable losses" on a bad night. Yet moon goo paying for ship replacement is bad. What is it that, in your mind, makes cap escalated loot any different than moon goo.

Why is jumping throway fleets into another wormhole "real pvp", but fighting with throwaway ships in null is "no consequence". Is it because WH corps throw away 30 1bil ships while null throws away 300 100mil ships? Think about that for a minute.

By your logic wormholes are just as bad, they don't evict each other and try to conquer every single W-space system under the flag of their one particular alliance. They are not fighting over anything of value. If anything, null is emulating what is going on in wormholes. Farming ISK to a comfortable level, then throwing it away for the off chance of a gudfite where you win nothing, beyond the memory of a night of good pew pew. A night where you got a fight and didn't get blobbed is a good night.

By your logic every C6 corp should be mass producing dreads right now and trying to take control of every single system their static can possibly connect to. After all, this is what you expect of Null - go conquer neighboring systems to expand the empire. The PvP in W-space is good because they don't do this. They leave opponents to prosper near by. So that they have readily accessible people willing to fight, who can throw away ships in equal number and value.

Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#31 - 2013-03-26 18:33:41 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:

You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.

Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.

Riddle me this

Why are cap escalations, paying hundreds of millions in isk per hour, OK. To the tune of welping a dread 5 guardians a Bhaal and 20 shiny T3's being "acceptable losses" on a bad night. Yet moon goo paying for ship replacement is bad. What is it that, in your mind, makes cap escalated loot any different than moon goo.

Why is jumping throway fleets into another wormhole "real pvp", but fighting with throwaway ships in null is "no consequence". Is it because WH corps throw away 30 1bil ships while null throws away 300 100mil ships? Think about that for a minute.

By your logic wormholes are just as bad, they don't evict each other and try to conquer every single W-space system under the flag of their one particular alliance. They are not fighting over anything of value. If anything, null is emulating what is going on in wormholes. Farming ISK to a comfortable level, then throwing it away for the off chance of a gudfite where you win nothing, beyond the memory of a night of good pew pew. A night where you got a fight and didn't get blobbed is a good night.

By your logic every C6 corp should be mass producing dreads right now and trying to take control of every single system their static can possibly connect to. After all, this is what you expect of Null - go conquer neighboring systems to expand the empire. The PvP in W-space is good because they don't do this. They leave opponents to prosper near by. So that they have readily accessible people willing to fight, who can throw away ships in equal number and value.

Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?


OP = pwned
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-03-26 18:35:46 UTC
Ladies and gentlemen: The Blue Donut.
http://i.imgur.com/iBENb1t.png
ohwait

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-03-26 18:40:11 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.

I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.


Apparently you've been under a rock lately.

HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.

Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.


maybe you should submit your evidence of RMT to security@ccpgames.com

oh wait you don't have any and you're just blowing smoke, l0l

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-03-26 18:44:52 UTC
the peasants are upset that the lords are not feuding because whenever the lords are not feuding, they stop by to flog peasants

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#35 - 2013-03-26 18:48:51 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.


Valid points.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.



DUH

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-03-26 19:13:43 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?
hate to tell you guys but your bieng trolled on the highest level. we are fighting like mad in null. want some proof?
http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16954635&Raiden_=blue&THORN_Alliance=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Initiative_Mercenaries=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&Insidious_Empire=blue&The_Gurlstas_Associates=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blue&Against_ALL_Authorities=red#assign

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16957678&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Raiden_=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&Cha_Ching_PLC=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blue&THORN_Alliance=blue&Claimed_=blue&Insidious_Empire=blue&Squee_=blue&No_value=red&Against_ALL_Authorities=red&Stain_Empire=red#assign


this is only but a small ammount of what went on yesterday. and we do this 7 days a wekk 23/7


You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.

Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.

But, there's no shooting structures in Wormholes as well. So yes, there's no PVP in Eve.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-03-26 19:20:36 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days.

Yes, and pop isn't real music, and prius is not a real car either.

Dash Bishop wrote:

Apparently you've been under a rock lately.

HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.

Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.

Apparently, you've been seeing things from way up there, perhaps you want to borrow my binocular? you know, so you can actually see things rather than tiny dots?

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
#38 - 2013-03-26 19:25:51 UTC
If conflict in 0.0 sec is grinding to a halt, at some point the CCP infiltrators in the big alliances will do their thing and then watch the glory of big alliances going up in flames.

It happened before and it will happen again Big smile

Offcourse the rumours of CCP infiltrators are hard to prove Blink
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-03-26 19:32:05 UTC
Everyone know is just building up to a massive FFA Lol
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#40 - 2013-03-26 19:42:45 UTC
Dash Bishop wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.

I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.


Apparently you've been under a rock lately.

HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.

Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.

Confirming that Montolio betrayed us, Dreddit is planning to leave TEST, Fras Siabi is The Mittani's alt, Sort makes over $100/month in RMT and all members of the HBC hate each other.