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Is "Blue Donut" Misleading?
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Isayeki Ohaya
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-03-26 14:44:33 UTC
As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2013-03-26 14:45:43 UTC
0/10



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Eve Amada
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-03-26 14:49:35 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.



Wrong!

The middle is where the juicy filling is which is made up of all fat & no good for you.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#4 - 2013-03-26 14:51:49 UTC
I believe "brown rim" is more appropriate.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Pantiy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-03-26 14:54:17 UTC
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#6 - 2013-03-26 14:54:56 UTC
Does that means wormholes are the milk where the cookies crumble ?
Isayeki Ohaya
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-03-26 14:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Isayeki Ohaya
Pantiy wrote:
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?
hate to tell you guys but your bieng trolled on the highest level. we are fighting like mad in null. want some proof?
http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16954635&Raiden_=blue&THORN_Alliance=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Initiative_Mercenaries=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&Insidious_Empire=blue&The_Gurlstas_Associates=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blue&Against_ALL_Authorities=red#assign

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16957678&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Raiden_=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&Cha_Ching_PLC=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blue&THORN_Alliance=blue&Claimed_=blue&Insidious_Empire=blue&Squee_=blue&No_value=red&Against_ALL_Authorities=red&Stain_Empire=red#assign


this is only but a small ammount of what went on yesterday. and we do this 7 days a wekk 23/7


You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.

Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-03-26 15:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Milan Nantucket
Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with all the goodness of nullsecbear alts mining with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2013-03-26 15:03:39 UTC
Pantiy wrote:
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?..

Its not the pilots that are blue to each other, its the solar systems that are blue. That is; its OK to kill the other pilot, but never ever attack their solar system.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Isayeki Ohaya
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-26 15:09:02 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Pantiy wrote:
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?..

Its not the pilots that are blue to each other, its the solar systems that are blue. That is; its OK to kill the other pilot, but never ever attack their solar system.


Exactly! There is no real PVP going on right now. It's all staged risk free PVP. Hisec has the most kills because it offers the safest PVP, where in null there could be actual risk so the leaders eliminated real pvp altogether to protect their botting empires.
Isayeki Ohaya
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-03-26 15:16:40 UTC
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with all the goodness of nullsecbear alts mining with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut.


Most of those ships are lost to rats, there's no real PVP going on
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-03-26 15:19:14 UTC
Pantiy wrote:
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?
hate to tell you guys but your bieng trolled on the highest level. we are fighting like mad in null. want some proof?



Yes yes, we know that CFC & HBC aren't blue to each other. That's a concession to keep the PvP rank and file from getting bored and wandering off to play another game, weakening the overall forces available to summon should an actual sov war break out.

The problem is that, like the cold war, a level of Mutually Assured Destruction has been reached that is unacceptable to the leadership on either side, so while you may not be blue, you do have significant NIP's in place that prevent any long term conflict from breaking out.

Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.

I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-03-26 15:20:45 UTC
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.


I can't imagine the level of jealousy and angst a person must have to make one look at a situation (like null sec, or pvp in general) and come to such provably incorrect (not to mention trollish) conclusion.

To belive in this "blue food" idiocy, you'd have to think that:

A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"

And

B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.

The 1st is demonstrably untrue (only 500 Tech moons in the whole game, Alliance get income from lots of sources like rent, levys from member corps etc etc), the 2nd is a crazy rationalization that could only be adopted by someone with an agenda.

The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec). The problem is that your average gamer is an anti-social, risk averse (omg I can't lose my pixels) nerd. no amount of gerrymandering the game to encourage people out of high sec is going to change that basic fact, therefore even "hardcore" games like EVE online will eventually be overrun by carebears who sit safely in protected space complaining about "Blue" stuff.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-03-26 15:29:09 UTC
If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net.
Isayeki Ohaya
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-26 15:29:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.


I can't imagine the level of jealousy and angst a person must have to make one look at a situation (like null sec, or pvp in general) and come to such provably incorrect (not to mention trollish) conclusion.

To belive in this "blue food" idiocy, you'd have to think that:

A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"

And

B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.

The 1st is demonstrably untrue (only 500 Tech moons in the whole game, Alliance get income from lots of sources like rent, levys from member corps etc etc), the 2nd is a crazy rationalization that could only be adopted by someone with an agenda.

The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec). The problem is that your average gamer is an anti-social, risk averse (omg I can't lose my pixels) nerd. no amount of gerrymandering the game to encourage people out of high sec is going to change that basic fact, therefore even "hardcore" games like EVE online will eventually be overrun by carebears who sit safely in protected space complaining about "Blue" stuff.


Just to respond to your points.

A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"

The two relevant coalitions are. Sure, there are other alliances and coalitions in eve, but they aren't more than a bump in the road to the two tech coalitions. There are also renters as income, but renters are basically the same as tech moons. As long as structures aren't getting shot, they're not at risk.

B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.

No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-03-26 15:35:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec).


I'm sorry Jenn, normally I agree with what you say, but this is pretty far off the mark. There are terrible issues with null (I try not to speak too much about low, since I rarely spend any time there) that reach far beyond sov mechanics. The Goons in particular, bless them, continually point out the problems by taking ruthless advantage of them, and CCP just continues to ignore them in favor of fixing the BotM (***** of the Month) because, frankly, fixing null sec is so hard they don't have a clue, in my opinion, of how to do it or even where to start. It's like handing someone a pick and a shovel, pointing at a mountain range full of iron and stone and saying "Build me the Empire State Building."

They've created an 800 pound gorilla of a problem. What they need is a 1000 pound solution, and they just don't have one.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-03-26 15:35:39 UTC
there is no pvp anymore

i'm right because i don't count anything as pvp
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-03-26 15:38:42 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net.


The war in the east is good, but it's not nearly enough.

Though maybe "blue doughnut" should be "blue croissant".

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dash Bishop
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-03-26 15:40:19 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.

I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.


Apparently you've been under a rock lately.

HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.

Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.

Caldari Militia ☜✫☞
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-03-26 15:46:07 UTC
If it was a donut I would have eaten it by now.
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