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Anti-Ganker Barge Fits.

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Ayame Tao
#61 - 2013-03-23 18:54:17 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
My ultimate goal, is to never lose a barge in the first place.


And that's not going to happen...

If you put a billion ISK module on a barge, some people will come along with a dozen Taloses or Tornados and blow the crap out of it.

Your fits are fail. Appropriate security is your desired result, not maximum EFT numbers. T2 rigs and deadspace mods won't make a difference to ganks. People gank freighters which have way more EHP than you can put on the tankiest of barges.

The more expense you put into your ship, the more liekly the significant effort required becomes profitable or funnier.

Solid T1 or T2 tanks are what you want. More trouble than its worth is the desired outcome - especially if you're fits are in the sam belt with Pinata plastered across them.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#62 - 2013-03-23 19:41:45 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
e: You guys do know that you can scan people's ships and find out their fit, right?

I hope gankers scan my fit, then think to themselves that it really isn't worth the effort.

Four years in and still using the first Hulk I bought (though a cheap max-yield Covetor would make a lot more sense now). Even survived 2.75 years of w-space (with a slightly different fit).

Beware that if you are AFK, determined gankers will sacrifice multiple ships against you. I've watched an AFK Orca taken out by one ganker in a lot of destroyers.

Wait, as in he whelped one destroyer, then another, then another? Solo?
Dave Stark
#63 - 2013-03-23 19:50:31 UTC
why are people so obsessed with fitting ships to not get ganked?

between the fact that ganking is at an all time low, and the fact that once you put a DCII on a mackinaw it's t1 counterpart becomes superior at mining there's no point trying to "avoid" being ganked, and you may as well focus on loss minimisation/profit maximisation.

just fit a retriever with 2x strips, 3x mlus, and be done with it.
Richard M Nixon
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#64 - 2013-03-24 18:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard M Nixon
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Skiff

High Power
1x Modulated Strip Miner II/Ice Harvester II

Medium Power
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field I/II
1x Em Ward Amplifier II
1x Explosive Deflection Amplifier II
1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
1x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Low Power
2x Ice/ore Harvester Upgrade I/II

Rig Slot
1x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I/II
1x Medium Anti-EM screen Reinforcer I/II

Please keep in mind that gankers use primarily Thermal and Kinetic as their main attacks, antimatter produces the top damage they are looking for, so high resistances in those areas work exceedingly well against them.


Do not forget to add a DCU to the lows. Yes, mining rate will not be as fast, but a dead ship mines MUCH less than a non-dead ship, IMO. Add remote rep from your support fleet.
Dave Stark
#65 - 2013-03-24 18:42:39 UTC
Richard M Nixon wrote:
but a dead ship mines MUCH less than a non-dead ship,


actually, that depends entirely on how stupid you are combined with how often you get ganked.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#66 - 2013-03-25 03:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-03-25 08:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
...Medium shield maintenence drones work well. 150 HP a rotation, they are much like a large shield boosters that requires no medium slot and no capacitor. Alot of people underestimate their value.
Shocked

Note: even if they would work on your own ship, they would be useless vs gankers.




Drones 102

Logistics Drones
These drones repair either the shield or armor of their targets, instead of damaging them. Unfortunately, a pilot is not able to target him/herself, and so the use of these drones is restricted to fleetmates. Note that there are no hull repair drones.

Shield Repair
These drones repair the shield of the target ship, and use the designs of small, medium and heavy Caldari drones. They come in Tech I and Tech II varieties - Tech II are about 20% more effective in repairing shields than the Tech I versions.

UNIWIKI

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Drones_102



I will stand corrected if the mechanics have changed.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-03-25 08:42:07 UTC
Richard M Nixon wrote:
...Do not forget to add a DCU to the lows. Yes, mining rate will not be as fast, but a dead ship mines MUCH less than a non-dead ship, IMO. Add remote rep from your support fleet.
You never add a DCU to a Retriever. All that does is Nerf the yield for minor improvement in tank.

If you need more tank, get a Procurer.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#69 - 2013-03-25 20:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Sir Marksalot wrote:


That program is called "ISBoxer", and I recommend it for anyone that has more than 2 eve accounts. It's a fantastic piece of software.
The ability to organize your clients into little windows that you can swap to with one click is worth it by itself. Seriously.

That aside mining really does scale well when multiboxing, but with 6 accounts you're far better off running anoms. You could semi-afk them with ishtars and easily pull 50-60m/hr per account (I don't know the actual numbers for ishtars), or you can do the effort route and pull 70+m/hr with nagas. A bunch of vindicators would probably do 90+, but I haven't tested it. A single vindicator with good skills can pull 130m/hr. This is more than your entire fleet makes.

The other issue is paying for the accounts. I myself run 8 dudes, all in nagas. If I pay decent attention to eve, I can make about 525-575/hour. After corp taxes lets call it 460m/hr. PLEX runs about 520m right now so I need 4.16b per month, which I can get in 9 hours. Fun side note, this also means I'm paying 82m/hr in corp taxes. At that rate we can replace DBRB's titan in 853 hours!
You can do better than me. Either run nagas with better fits, or roll around with vindicators calling me a poor and talking about that 5th nyx you just bought.

Now, to make that much money mining. (Which you can)
Miners have one pretty big advantage here, no corp tax. +15% isk in your favor, basically. CCP kind of screwed that one up, but whatever. That's an entirely different thread.
At 30m/hr your hulk is going to take 17 hours to plex. Mining scales up really well, so the whole fleet is going to take about that long to plex. It's going to take 15 hulks to match 8 scrub-nagas though. Not to mention time spent compressing minerals and space trucking them to wherever it is that you sell them at.


Point is, mining scales up really well, but unless you're going past about a dozen accounts you're better off shooting red crosses. Also that highsec kind of sucks.

e: You can probably make more mining in nullsec, but I don't know the numbers on that. And the logistics is likely worse.

Well I can't disagree with you on any of that. But comparing null sec ratting to high sec mining is and should show null sec as more profitable.

There are a few points to consider though.

To do what you suggest in Null sec not only requires much more skill training time, but much more actual player experience. I have a hard time multiboxing 4 accounts for combat. As you say ISBoxer can make that easier to manage. And such a large increase in income would certainly justify the added risk. Not so much from being in null sec, but PVP threats aside, ratting is much higher risk than mining, and should have a much higher return. However a 4-6 account mining op can be run successfully with very little experience, with the only major threat being gankers.

Although I find myself spending less and less time mining, I have only ever lost 2 ships in 5 years to gankers. And when I mine it is mostly semi AFK. While I am at work, I will have EVE up on my second and/or third screen. I guess with the right skills and ships you can AFK ratting or mission running even easier than mining. But I would expect that AFK ratting in NULL would leave you very open to getting ganked. But I guess being in GOONS you have some very secure deep null sec surrounded by blues to rat in. However I am not in a large null sec alliance and do not have access to the safe null sec systems that would be required for your suggestion to work.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#70 - 2013-03-25 22:05:29 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Beware that if you are AFK, determined gankers will sacrifice multiple ships against you. I've watched an AFK Orca taken out by one ganker in a lot of destroyers.

Wait, as in he whelped one destroyer, then another, then another? Solo?

Yes. The Orca pilot was AFK a long time (ice field).

Everyone in local was cheering the ganker on. People were sending him ISK for more destroyers. I don't recall the final count, as the ganker had an alt salvaging his wrecks.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#71 - 2013-03-25 22:10:10 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Beware that if you are AFK, determined gankers will sacrifice multiple ships against you. I've watched an AFK Orca taken out by one ganker in a lot of destroyers.

Wait, as in he whelped one destroyer, then another, then another? Solo?

Yes. The Orca pilot was AFK a long time (ice field).

Everyone in local was cheering the ganker on. People were sending him ISK for more destroyers. I don't recall the final count, as the ganker had an alt salvaging his wrecks.

That's amazing.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#72 - 2013-03-25 23:05:50 UTC
This thread is beyond pointless, ISD please lock.

There is zero need to discuss mining as CCP has done it all for you. Fit mining lasers in highs and mining upgrades in low, warp to belt click a roid and press f1. Dock and empty ore when mining stops. You can even download programs that do this all for you.

Thank CCP for making mining even more boring than it was before.

ISD please immediately lock all posts regarding mining as there is zero content to discuss, than you.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#73 - 2013-03-26 02:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Dave Stark
#74 - 2013-03-26 08:36:14 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
This thread is beyond pointless, ISD please lock.

There is zero need to discuss mining as CCP has done it all for you. Fit mining lasers in highs and mining upgrades in low, warp to belt click a roid and press f1. Dock and empty ore when mining stops. You can even download programs that do this all for you.

Thank CCP for making mining even more boring than it was before.

ISD please immediately lock all posts regarding mining as there is zero content to discuss, than you.


Any thread about combat is pointless, ISD please lock.

There is zero need to discuss combat as CCP has done it all for you. fit guns in the highs and damage mods in low, warp to hostile ships, click the hostile ship, and press f1. Dock and pick up more ammo when you run out. You can even download programs that do this all for you.

Thank CCP for making Combat just as easy as every other activity in the game.

ISD please immediately lock all posts regarding combat as there is zero content to discuss, thank you.
Dave Stark
#75 - 2013-03-26 08:37:45 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
By telling people to use mining laser upgrades instead of DCII, they are hoping to keep the barges weak.


actually, we're just pointing out the obvious. as soon as you put a DCII on a mackinaw, it's t1 counterpart will outmine it, and if you should be stupid enough to lose it (yes, losing a mining ship is nothing but the owner's stupidity/lax attitude) you've probably already mined more from the yield boost than the ship will cost to replace.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-03-26 10:01:06 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Fitting mining upgrades, shield boosters, capacitor batteries, and expanded cargo holds all lower a barges defense. This thread is about tanked barges, anything else is off topic.

By telling people to use procurors, they hope to disuade people from mining by making it so tedious and underproductive that it will encourage them to go elsewhere for isk, not to mention slow down actual mineral exchange and sale on the market.

By telling people to use mining laser upgrades instead of DCII, they are hoping to keep the barges weak.

And by telling people not to invest in a barge that will be around for a much longer time, and to stick to throwaways barges, they hope to keep people from upgrading into a barge, with a fit, that will deter ganking and put it in its place.

Question these peoples motives, they are trying to harm you and destroy your progress.
Lol You have never mined before have you? You are starting to contradict yourself?


"By telling people to use procurors, they hope to disuade people from mining by making it so tedious and underproductive..."

"By telling people to use mining laser upgrades instead of DCII, they are hoping to keep the barges weak..."
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#77 - 2013-03-26 10:02:38 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Fitting mining upgrades, shield boosters, capacitor batteries, and expanded cargo holds all lower a barges defense. This thread is about tanked barges, anything else is off topic.

By telling people to use procurors, they hope to disuade people from mining by making it so tedious and underproductive that it will encourage them to go elsewhere for isk, not to mention slow down actual mineral exchange and sale on the market.

By telling people to use mining laser upgrades instead of DCII, they are hoping to keep the barges weak.

And by telling people not to invest in a barge that will be around for a much longer time, and to stick to throwaways barges, they hope to keep people from upgrading into a barge, with a fit, that will deter ganking and put it in its place.

Question these peoples motives, they are trying to harm you and destroy your progress.


40k EHP is weak? LMFAO. CCP brought mining down below WOW in terms of IQ and skill needed with the huge buff to miner HP. Farmville is a more intresting experince than mining in eve.
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-03-26 10:48:52 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
ISD please immediately lock all posts regarding mining as there is zero content to discuss, than you.


Is that your new gimmick? Good, the old one was getting boring months ago.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#79 - 2013-03-26 13:47:36 UTC
Well, i'm glad the debate isen't over, there is still input pouring in.
Dave Stark
#80 - 2013-03-26 16:58:06 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Farmville is a more intresting experince than mining in eve.


please, show me any task that's interesting after being repeated hundreds and thousands of times. preferably in eve.