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Warfare & Tactics

 
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question about aligning while cloaked

Author
Buttford
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-03-23 10:28:15 UTC
ok so what happens is this : given a cloaked indy ( or transport ), it aligns to a certain gate/destination ( while cloaked ). Moving at the fantastic speed of 9 m/s, it slowly aligns to the target - been doing this for like 5 minutes so, even with the slow speed, id say it should be aligned ( visually it surely is ). However when i turn off cloaking and hit warp, it still needs a full half a minute to align and warp. Shouldnt this be instant warping, given that the alignment was already done ?

thx
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#2 - 2013-03-23 10:30:48 UTC
it takes time to accelerate to speed needed to initiate warp
Buttford
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-03-23 10:50:49 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
it takes time to accelerate to speed needed to initiate warp


then why does it warp instantly if i put a stasis field on it with another ship ? this decreases the speed even more
Simiya Prana
Red Star Conglomerate
#4 - 2013-03-23 11:16:35 UTC
you warp when your at 3/4 of speed no matter what.

You might be aligned at ½ speed, then decloak and want to warp you then still have to do the last 1/4 of speed to initiate warp.

Lets say your ship can go 100 m/s then you need a speed at 75 to initiate warp. at your hub at the bottome where the capacitor, shield/armor/hull indicator you also have a speed indicator, that indicator is divided into quarters.
so lets say you you have a mwd activated and you go 1000ms then you will warp when at 750 ms, the slower the ship the faster it will warp - however mass also effects this, e.g. armor plated BS takes longer time to aign as they are heavier to turn.

So what happens when you web your ship you decrease the ships speed and it takes shorter time to get to the 3/4 of speed you need to warp. Some use this to make freighters warp faster.

transport ships T1 and blockade runners T2 act very differently though.

you might want to look into the mwd+cloak trick, check this video it explains alot about aligning etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4
Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-03-23 11:18:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenos Ebeth
Buttford wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
it takes time to accelerate to speed needed to initiate warp


then why does it warp instantly if i put a stasis field on it with another ship ? this decreases the speed even more


You only warp when you reach 75% of your speed , when you uncloak , your maximum speed increases by a lot , so you need to accelerate more to reach 75% of your new maximum speed.

Also you warp faster when webbed because because it recudes your max speed , thus it takes less time to reach 75% speed and initiate warp.

edit: ninja'd

Bad posts are not welcome on these forums.  -CCP Falcon

Seraph Castillon
In Control
Neon Nightmares
#6 - 2013-03-23 11:41:18 UTC
Hit MWD, Hit align, cloak, decloak when aligned, insta warp.
Buttford
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-03-23 11:56:20 UTC
Thank you for the good answers !
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#8 - 2013-03-23 12:54:23 UTC
Zenos Ebeth wrote:
Buttford wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
it takes time to accelerate to speed needed to initiate warp


then why does it warp instantly if i put a stasis field on it with another ship ? this decreases the speed even more


You only warp when you reach 75% of your speed , when you uncloak , your maximum speed increases by a lot , so you need to accelerate more to reach 75% of your new maximum speed.

Also you warp faster when webbed because because it recudes your max speed , thus it takes less time to reach 75% speed and initiate warp.

edit: ninja'd




The explanation on the webbing part is okay, but might be confusing, so here some more detail:

A web will reduce the max velocity of a ship. It will NOT reduce the align time, which is the time it takes for a ship to accelerate from current direction and speed to new direction and 100% speed.*
So if you're a ship that can go 100m/s, are at 0m/s and get webbed and then warp, you'll still have to wait for your ship to reach 75% maxspeed.
However, if you're already moving, and beyond the point at which your speed would be 75% of your max speed if you NOW get webbed, then you'll instantly warp off.
Example:

Ship goes 100m/s, will be webbed by 60% if web is activated, reducing maxspeed to 40m/s.
You need to go 30m/s before getting webbed, so you're at 75% maxspeed. If you're below, instawarp won't work.


* nice to know: if you're going 50% maxspeed and want to accelerate to 100%, the moment you start accelerating it will take not half of your aligntime or whatever you might think, it will be the full aligntime until you hit 100% maxspeed.
This also means, if you want to fully halt your ship as fast as possible, 'Ctrl+Space'-only will take more time to do so, than doubleclicking into the direction you're coming from, making a 180° turn and ctrl-space once your speed bar is reaching near zero. Good for when you want to stop your dreadnought asap for sieging up.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-25 11:04:42 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Hit MWD, Hit align, cloak, decloak when aligned, insta warp.

Remember, for this you need the improved cloak to work properly.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#10 - 2013-03-25 16:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodama Ikari
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Hit MWD, Hit align, cloak, decloak when aligned, insta warp.



doing it wrong. You can't hit mwd while under gatecloak, and if you decloak before your mwd cycles off you won't instawarp

Align
Cloak (yes, you cloak first)
MWD
once MWD cycles off automatically, deactivate cloak
Warp
Arch1bald
Lightning Squad
Snuffed Out
#11 - 2013-03-25 19:10:08 UTC
Kodama Ikari wrote:
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Hit MWD, Hit align, cloak, decloak when aligned, insta warp.



doing it wrong. You can't hit mwd while under gatecloak, and if you decloak before your mwd cycles off you won't instawarp

Align
Cloak (yes, you cloak first)
MWD
once MWD cycles off automatically, deactivate cloak
Warp



Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.

You do:

You jump into a system.
Align
MWD
Cloak
Decloak when the mwd cycle is 85/90% complete
Warp to aligned target, instantly =)

To give a simple explanation to the web process. A freighter has to get to 75% its top speed to warp, so if the freighter is going 55% its top speed and then it is webbed, that current speed is now greater then the now modified webbed max speed and thus you instawarp.


Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-26 02:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgina Parmala
Arch1bald wrote:


Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.

You do:

You jump into a system.
Align
MWD
Cloak

Pro tip:
When you hit your cloak, you have just under a second before the server realizes you are cloaked and your MWD still goes off after. It also makes you actually transition from gate cloak to cloak faster and safer.

Align
Cloak (yes, you cloak first)
MWD

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Flandre Scarlette
Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#13 - 2013-03-26 12:13:24 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Arch1bald wrote:


Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.

You do:

You jump into a system.
Align
MWD
Cloak

Pro tip:
When you hit your cloak, you have just under a second before the server realizes you are cloaked and your MWD still goes off after. It also makes you actually transition from gate cloak to cloak faster and safer.

Align
Cloak (yes, you cloak first)
MWD


^ This. you have something like a 2-3 second window, if that, to hit mwd after cloak. You only get 1 cycle off on the mwd, but thats all you need. super useful trick.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#14 - 2013-03-26 13:10:11 UTC
Flandre Scarlette wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Arch1bald wrote:


Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.

You do:

You jump into a system.
Align
MWD
Cloak

Pro tip:
When you hit your cloak, you have just under a second before the server realizes you are cloaked and your MWD still goes off after. It also makes you actually transition from gate cloak to cloak faster and safer.

Align
Cloak (yes, you cloak first)
MWD


^ This. you have something like a 2-3 second window, if that, to hit mwd after cloak. You only get 1 cycle off on the mwd, but thats all you need. super useful trick.



I believe 2-3 seconds is too much and you really don´t want to lose the opportunity to activate the MWD after cloaking.

Anyone who wants to learn that "trick" is HIGHLY advised to train it in high-sec to get a feeling for it before relying in it in a "live" situation in low-sec!

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]

Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#15 - 2013-03-26 13:49:27 UTC
Arch1bald wrote:


Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.

You do:

You jump into a system.
Align
MWD
Cloak
Decloak when the mwd cycle is 85/90% complete
Warp to aligned target, instantly =)



I think you are literally trying to get people killed with misinformation What?. You can activate any active module for a few seconds after the cloak is active. The window is a few seconds, and its certainly longer than a single 'server tick.' This is all 'working as intended.' Secondly, if you decloak before the mwd cycle is complete, your max velocity will jump up to your full mwd-'d speed. You will never be able to reach 75% of mwd'd speed after dropping an active cloak. This means you will NEVER be able to activate warp until the mwd cycle finishes, therefore it is dangerous to decloak early. Furthermore, if you don't manually cycle off your mwd, decloaking early will cause your mwd to cycle again, leaving you a complete sitting duck. Also, the "95% speed modifier" is actually a 75% speed modifier with t2, and this negative modifier effects you from the very first cycle. Doing it the correct way, there may be about 1-2 seconds where you have your cloak on but the mwd has just finished. During this time your velocity will decrease, but you'll still be well above the warp threshold. The instant you decloak you can warp. You only need a high-agility ship if you're trying to force this with a t1 cloak or an afterburner, which will leave you exposed regardless.

Nerath Naaris wrote:

I believe 2-3 seconds is too much and you really don´t want to lose the opportunity to activate the MWD after cloaking.


What's worse, spending 2-3 seconds uncloaked, sig-bloomed from the mwd and getting instalocked or accidentally missing your mwd and being cloaked in place? The window to activate modules after cloaking is a fat one (at least 2 full seconds). If you can't manage that, then this trick isn't going to help you much either way.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#16 - 2013-03-26 13:54:55 UTC
Bads giving bad advice = Eve O forums

Arch1bald wrote:


Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak.


nom nom

Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#17 - 2013-03-27 11:01:27 UTC
Arch1bald wrote:

Fail. You cannot mwd with an active cloak. And if you wait for the cycle to complete the 95 something percent negative speed modifier on the cloak will affect you too much on anything bigger then a nano cruiser and you will not instawarp.


Your fail. You actually can mwd cloaked, but only one cycle. Try it. Hit cloak and MWD fast, and you'll see.


regards,

Rob