Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Seriously... What are you on about...

In any game the game developers sets the rules if the rules don't create "good gameplay" then they change the basic rules to encourage that... That is how any game including EvE has always worked. It's only a sandbox insofar as CCP gives us the tools to play with. If a shovel turns out to be ineffective or overpowered they change it simple as that.

You talk as if we somehow create all the rules ourselves and it's all a sandbox with no framework. Sorry to burst your little quoting bubble but no, that is not, was not and will never be how EvE or 99% of games work. (can maybe make a exception for minecraft although even that is debatable)

Seriously read over everything you have written again because I struggle to fathom how you can take any of it seriously for even a second. I'm partially expecting a 180% turn with you outing yourself as a troll somewhere along the line

On another note your comment about the command modules working like painters causing gate aggression was valid, albeit the first proper argument you made in this thread I have to concede your correct in this. I overlooked that effect of it.
It could easily be taken away from the idea it was just a addendum idea to try and solve the ease off offgrid boosting. The core of the idea makes offgrid boosting in itself so difficult it is debatable wether it is truly worth it.

The issue as is, is that flying command ships is extremely booring. CCP will remove offgrid boosting one way or the other. The race is on to try and steer the change in such a way that flying boosting ships actually becomes fun.

At the moment, Armor cmd ships can at least utilize mids for ewar, while shield cmd are just floating bricks with crap for dps. They have got to be one of the most uninteresting classes/role to fly out of every class there is.

As to the dude that said boosting blobs even more. Stop being silly and think for a moment. forcing a gang that wants offgid bonuses to utilize 3/6/9/12 chars extra in the safespot to get those bonuses working in complete safety doesn't boost blobbing.

blobbing is defined as one side having a numerically superior force to the other. One side having 8 characters sitting in a safespot just to get 6 bonuses, does not magically enlarge their onfield gang.

Perhaps I should have been clearer

The idea works in such a way that you can target enemies/neutrals alongside friendlies to actually activate the boost. Once the booster is active on a target there needs to be a graphical representation showing that the target is an activator.

I'd go so far as to say that in empire you should be able to target neutrals to activate it.

This means that with 2 small gangs fighting each-other there is a lot of tactics opened up for denying the enemy a valid target for boost. If you damp and web their booster and your booster ensures that he fills the slot of the hostiles boosters lock range then that is a form of bonus denial.

In turn they can jam your booster and their booster can then do the same to them. Does that make it clearer ?

It's in small gangs where this method really brings out tactical choices and makes e-war and applied webs/scrams a nice method to deny boosters.

But yeah if your a sniping gang then you don't get 3 boosts if your less than 3 in the gang. But in all seriousness should a 3 man gang get the bonuses off potentially 3 alts sitting in a safespot.

Or should a solo frigate dude that lures people into 1vs1 really have the opportunity to have 4 OOC alt's sitting making his frig nigh unkillable by whatever fool actually takes that 1vs1.

The fact that that possibility even exists is something that to me kills small/solo pvp and does nothing to enhance it.

I'm aware of the changes CCP are making the crux of the matter is that cmd boost ships will always be subpar as combat ships by definition they have to be otherwise you have OP ships with way too many utility highs.

Much better that they are made fun/interesting to fly by some other mechanic.

I have 3 chars skilled to leadership and 30 million SP between them in leadership. I can fly every single T3 and Cmd ship there is with max support skills and the truth is 100% of the time I either have one char sitting in a SS or I dual box with one dude in the command ship set to orbit, cuz frankly it won't ever be primary with the other stuff that we field.

Sometimes upon a rare occasion when we run sniper/long distance tackle gangs I fly sniper claymores. that have pitiful dps where basically my role is to align and not get myself killed/ or safe up somewhere.

They are boring ships with boring roles giving command bonuses should be a tactical choice not just a iwin F1-F8 fire and forget. If not by this idea then by something else at least.

the problem is that your assuming the blob does not have boosts. almost all fleets have some description of boost these days. having them off grid usually means they provide no advantage to one side or the other.

people seem to have some issue with that idea that if you booster is on grid then you have obviously need to make provisions to keep it alive. as opposed to just being sat in a safe. as I've said previously command ships are capable of a tank which means they are not the immediate choice as a primary. but at least you have a choice to combat it.

as far as for gorilla tactics it will require your boosting ship is also set up to be capable of flying with the fleet. and if your telling me a claymore can't kite then well..... i have no words.

the reason i suggested that there should also be a way to disrupt an boosting ship is so that even in a blob these advantages can come and go during a fight just like you see the effect a jam cycle can have on a logi setup.

To the contrary, I am making no assumptions regarding presence of boosting for the blob.
I am pointing out that with numerical superiority, the conflict will always be won by them if they can hit all the targets they have an interest in.

The advantage to superior numbers is obvious. The disadvantage tends to be the flip side of this, and needs to not be removed.
A blob is easier to locate, scan down, and harass since they have more ships to be scanned.
As they are travelling in a group, they often keep their boosting ships present with them, which is also a disadvantage in some ways.

Small groups going to the effort of coordinating and acting in separate groups deserve consideration.

Planning has value. Brute force is not the only tactic we should encourage.


Telling the small groups they must use brute tactics over speed and stealth.
What exactly is wrong with the sneaky ships? The guy flying the capital might be easy to scan down, but he needs more to counter him.
The guy flying the paper tanked off grid ship might be harder to find, but he kinda needs that defense too.


Blobs will always have their place.

It just can't be the only option in a balanced game.

it is far from the only option nor is it the only deciding factor.

but by far the most effective method of combating a blob is by whatever method causing them to separate and no longer be a singular blob. boosting doesn't really have any impact on this situation. especially right now because both sides will almost always have an off grid booster. so even if you can break up the blob there is no advantage to it other than numbers.

whereas if you can break them up in a situation where they need to be on grid to receive boosts, then those separated are weakened compared to the organised gorilla group.


just to start you off, using bubbles, bombs, gate aggression, mechanics, warping around, kiting (to a lesser extent) are all ways that ships can easily get separated from a blob and become vulnerable to a hit and run attack.

right now only by getting ships into another system would allow the gorilla team to have a quality advantage to be provided by boosts.

Seriously......You need to step off your high horse for a second and touch back with reality.

CCP makes game mechanics without realising the effects of them and then change them all the time.

Hence we have had battleships that flew faster then interceptors, hac's that flew faster than interceptors. People who avoided concord by blackopsing out. Titans that killed 300 man fleets with the press of a button becoming common place. People that nanofitted battleships flew them 200kms while launching enough torps to sink capitals before they all hit. Titans becoming common place. the list goes on and on and on

Each time CCP realises the game mechanics aren't conducive to 'good' gameplay they change the rules.
The sandbox is where the players take the new rules and then use them in new and interesting ways that CCP never thought off. Adapt or die.
this is the sandbox........

CCP has already stated on numerous occasions that they do not like offgrid boosting and want to change it so please get your hand out of your rectum and address what you think is wrong with the idea on the merits of the idea itself rather then quoting or referencing completely non relevant text ( It makes you come across as devoid of your own intelligence so you have to borrow others) or even better come up with a better alternative for how CCP can make the change without just forcing command pilots to fly boring bricks.

The more interesting the rules the more interesting the game play. Putting ship on a alt account in safespot or pos and pressing F1-F7 becoming a must for every serious gang is NOT interesting gameplay. It's a sandbox full of cat faeces.

You didn't mention any proper reasons is my problem. to be honest I didn't bother reading your argument because the actual argument you put in the post was so vague that it boiled down to nothing. I'm bashing on not making a concise argument while quoting very general statements wildly.

From where I am standing your argument boils down to the following.

Everyone sticking boosts on alt accounts in a safespot is better gameplay and sandbox then being forced to apply them tactically on the field in combat situations with actual parameters they have to take into account for how they are going to get boosts.

Which if it is what you believe is fine. However you failed to read the actual OP itself which pretty clearly stated that CCP is making the change so don't argue the fact that the change is happening just the merits of the idea itself.

The problem as I see it is booster alts being invulnerable inside pos shields making their fleets overpowered while boosting better in their ships fitted with max amount of links and by doing so ruining gameplay for main toons who want to play booster on grid in combat and actually play the game.

I have trained leadership on my main. I dont like alts. I dont like boxed toons to fill the boring roles. That is usually what gets you killed. Alts not keeping reps going or alts being left several gates back.

I love my Damnation. Over the last year I have used it countless times. Three times while not being in a pos. Two of those I have gotten to be on grid and NONE of the times I have been fired upon. My paintjob is still completely flawless on a two year old commandship.

And what do we lose by getting this change? People has to actively partake in playing the game. They have to find ways to make their booster survive. They have to use the sandbox to find the right modules to fit or find the best spot to try and hide for as long as possible.

I see nothing bad in making people play the game. I want to play the game.

I would include mining boosts working the same way. Nothing should be hiding behind a reinforceable screen. If you are afraid to lose it then do not use it. Behind a pos force field you are sitting with all aces on your hand. With this mechanic the orca could lock up hulks to keep boosts up.

It was a very short explanation on how often my command ship sees the front line of battle.
The two times I was on grid included one fight where the opponents were more prone to shoot the bhaalgorns ending up with them running away and one long roam where we did not come upon anyone willing to take a fight.

All ships contributing to a fleet should have to actively partake in some way and not sit in their safehouse browsing youtube while contributing to the fight on such a large scale as boosters does.

The Orca is not the top booster for mining purposes, the Rorqual is.

This is a ship that needs to basically go into siege mode to get the bonus to it's boosting, and compressing functions.

While almost anything is possible in the game, it is commonly considered to not be practical to field a Rorqual for use outside POS shields. You either own the system and these are already present anyways, or if the system is too contested for a POS and not safe enough for the Rorqual for the same reasons.
There seems to be no balance point where an alliance has the resources to field a defense and doesn't already have safe use systems making such a defense obsolete.

By forcing the Rorqual into open space, you either need to reconfigure how it works to be more self reliant for defense, or relegate it to use exclusively for the upper tier alliances with massive SOV holdings.

The overall game balance as it stands currently has rejected defense fleets beyond gate camps. The PvP pilots simply are not standing post over their PvE brethren, they are off looking for fights.