Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Currently, asteroid belt pirates are just too easy to kill in high-sec. All it takes to kill them and survive all attack waves are 3-4 light scout drones, especially when flying mining barges with shield tanking modules on. This is mainly why players are able to mine while away from keyboard or to bot.

Mission encounters in the same system offer a much higher challenge however, and a single ship with only light scout drones would not be enough to survive in a mission, even lower level ones.

So, why not simply make the pirates that spawn in asteroid belts the same difficulty level as the ones in level 2 missions? Make the waves bigger and more frequent depending on how many ships are in the asteroid belts and the system, but balance the loot and salvage dropped so that it doesn't become too much of an easy way for active combat pilots to grind them.

This would force industrial pilots (haulers and miners) to have at least some form of active escort, or risk being destroyed or severely damaged (up to armor) by NPC pirates. I know some combat players would just roam around from belt to belt and kill all the pirates they see, but there are still chances that a miner would get attacked, especially in quiet systems. This means they wouldn't be able to "safely" mine while being away from keyboard or using bots.

I'm sure there would be some loopholes to consider and other negative drawbacks to this, but I'm also sure there would be a clever way to patch those holes to make it work.

I know this subject is a touchy one, but please try to avoid flaming if you don't agree. I would appreciate constructive comments.

Thanks

I fail to see the relevance of this statement. What are you trying to say exactly? I didn't suggest to make the pirates in asteroid belts as difficult as level 4 mission encounters, but at least as difficult as level 1-2, maybe 3 in 0.6 and below, and also maybe more than just frigates.

Because mining is a basic requirement for industry and you can't get minerals by running only missions. There will always be a need for mining as long as the base material for production will be minerals.

I just did! I would still mine because mining is required to make everything in EVE, except for rigs. Without mining, there's no manufacturing, and without manufacturing there's no ships. No ships to run level 4 missions; no level 4 missions profit. Get it?

The point of this suggestion is to make mining impossible to do solo, unattended with only drones as a guard. The one easy way to do this is to have more significant NPC pirate interference so that you can't just leave your PC unattended while you mine by risk of being damaged beyond shields or even destroyed.

I do see your points but don't agree with most.

Which is fine, and I knew this already. All of the AFK and bot mining is happening in high-sec.

That's what corporations and mining operations are for. EVE is supposed to be a social game, not a single player game. Right now, too many are playing the solo game with multiple PLEXed alts in high-sec just to feed the heavy mineral needs of null-sec players. As for paying for escort, only the ones that really don't want to be in a corporation would do this, and this is a minority. Other than that, guard duties for mining operations is already required in low-sec and null-sec because the pirates there are too tough for a single flight of drones, however let's face it: Mining operations in general are boring and repetitive, and I don't think that would change much. In fact, having tougher pirate interference in asteroid belts may make it more interesting and less boring, so I don't see a problem with that.

This suggestion especially means to disrupt that solo-mining gaming, purposely, because it's against the social aspect of EVE online and has become too easily exploitable (boting, afk mining).

It would cause some inflation when first introduced, perhaps, but as corporations and solo-players get more organized it would go back to normal shortly after.



I've spent at least a good full hour thinking it through before I posted this, and thought of all these points already. I still don't think they would be an issue however.

Bottom line is that a lot of players are not happy with the way CCP is handling the mass of afk miners and botters in high-sec, precisely because they are getting it too easy compared to low-sec and null-sec, and this is a way to change that without going into PvP.

You're not quoting the whole sentence!

The point of this suggestion is to make mining impossible to do solo,unattended with only drones as a guard.

...and even then, I don't think it's dumb at all. Yes, the implications are huge if you can't just mine solo anymore, but nothing prevents you from using one of your alts and dual-box to guard your miner. Technically, a single player can still do it without the need for a paid escort or a full blown mining operation. The point is to prevent afk mining and botting. Not to prevent solo mining altogether.

How else would you suggest we get rid of AFK and botters without affecting the PvP security of high-sec?

You know, mining in highsec is supposed to be relatively safe? So that new players can do something in the meantime?... So, dumb idea. Sorry, but it's true.

So you are suggesting that instead of having AFK miners happily mining away and bringing prices down, you suggest that we halve their productivity and motivation as well by forcing them to have their Alt in a combat ship instead of a mining ship, glued to the screen during their hours of mining waiting for rare big waves of rats to come along.
Asteroids are small enough already that you have to target a new asteroid every cycle or two anyway.
Ice mining is a bit of a problem because you can AFK mine for half an hour easily, but that has caused the penalty of a 75% drop in ice prices.

Also if the spawns were frequent enough this would just lead to afk droneboating in belts instead.

The relativity Tonto is referring to mostly applies to PvP, and yes, it would still be relatively safe if the rats can be easily destroyed with T1 frigates as guards. My point is that a single flight of drones should not be able to take out a whole wave alone without the miner suffering enough damage to get to his armor if he's not paying attention (i.e. using active shield hardeners with boosters).

Be honest... I don't know anyone that actually enjoys sitting alone at his desk watching his cargo hold slowly fill with ore while his mining lasers do their job, without any sort of challenge. The only adults who would actually enjoy this would probably be autistic or mentally challenged.

Let's face it, mining is the most boring thing in EVE, but is a requirement for the industry. If a solo player wants to solo (for fun), and he has a choice between actually doing something challenging and remotely interactive, mining will not be his first choice.

If the player is in a corporation however, or has a buddy to guard him, that's different. If enough players are in the belt to take care of the pirates (which is often the case in popular systems), then other miners would be able to profit from it and mine solo for some time. Point is however, a single player, with a single account, shouldn't be able to use bots to mine asteroids all day without any risk whatsoever, or mine ice all day while afk.

I don't care if this affects prices slightly. Like I wrote earlier, it would affect prices for a little while when implemented (the time it would take for players and corporations to adjust) and then it would get back to normal as it becomes a natural part of everyone's day to day life in EVE.

And by the way, this character is only 2 months old, meaning I'm a relatively new player even though I have played EVE several years earlier. I'm the first to suggest this, and I would have been happy if it worked like this when I started playing EVE. It would have forced me to find a newbie-friendly corporation to join and mine with earlier if that's the career I wanted. I would have had no problems with that.

And that would be fine, yes. That is exactly what I'm suggesting. Drone boating wouldn't work by the way, because you have to tell your drones to guard someone specific for them to defend them, and doing so would leave you unguarded. At some point, someone would have to be at his screen to watch for pirate waves. The whole point, is that it wouldn't be possible for someone solo to mine in a Retriever, alone in a belt, with only 5 drones to guard him and all that while taking no armor damage whatsoever.

I guess you could still be able to solo for a while, but at some point you would have to either replace some of your drones or get repaired in station, which means you couldn't just leave your EVE client unattended forever while doing it.

/facepalm ... There are no Battleships in level 2-3 mission encounters as far as I know. The highest you'll see are Battlecruisers, and that's in Level 3 missions. I've corrected my original post to specify no more than level 2 as the difficultly then...

OP:

Your against bots and I fully support that principle. 110%.

But your idea is flawed on many levels. Making mining impossible to do solo is against the sandbox and would ruin Tue game for many players. I enjoy mining as a change of pace now and again. Plus I also get a sense of satisfaction from knowing I get my own minerals for my own production. I don't necessarily want to do that in a group.

Also, if you think all bot mining is highsec only, your a fool. Admittedly the majority of bots in null are mission bots but then they make so much more isk than miners it makes you wonder why anyone would bot mine.

Anyway, here's your main flaw. Bot miners don't solo much. They fly a fleet in. All it takes is to have a single other ship, who has all the drones attached to it with bot commands to attack pve rats. Suddenly the Orca becomes lethal with maybe 50 medium drones...