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Should Ganking be profitable?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#361 - 2013-03-22 19:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Didnt take any thing out of context...
…aside from the quote, which was based on a misunderstanding of what was going on — something the context of the thread makes clear.

Quote:
He refered to barges just as i have he said ganking those shouldnot be profit.
Incorrect, as the quote shows.

Quote:
Changes were made I agree with those changes. Then I asked if ganking should yield a profit and you girls have had your panties in a bind ever since.
It's a bit weird that you agree with the changes seeing as how they aren't related to what you're asking for, and, in fact, the changes do not in any way achieve the goal you're looking for. Also, you got your answer, so why can you answer a simple question in return?

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Quote:
Sounwaves quote was very specific.
Yes. It pretty specifically said that your interpretation is incorrect.

Quote:
Tippia saying nope wont change the facts.
No. The facts remain the same: what he was commenting on was a situation that he had misunderstood, and the changes did not do what you're suggesting (nor were they ever intended to). They also didn't do what you misinterpret his quote to say. Just because you're hoping that he was saying something he didn't say, and that they made changes that they didn't make, doesn't change the fact: neither the quote nor the changes in question are even remotely related to your idea of not allowing people to profit from the stupidity of others or to rob people of their valuables (for profit).

In fact, I have a question for you: why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? It's a very simple question. You have no answer to it. You have no point. You have no basis for your argument. You have no understanding of the game; of balance; of mechanics; of CCP's stance; of Soundwave's quote. All of these are facts and no matter how much you try to evade them, they won't change.

But let's try again. Prove us wrong about one simple thing. Prove that, contrary to everyone's belief and contrary to what's empirically been proven, you can answer this very very simple question — a question that, unless you can answer it, blows your entire idea out of the water: why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2013-03-22 20:12:04 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

mission income can be taken away by any off-war or few pilots suicide ganking. Sometime you even don't need to kill ratter to prevent his mission to pay.


There is a safety system in place that prevents people being hounded out of the game. If you fly a tanky mining ship or cheap tanky mission ship, you will be unprofitable to gank. If you're in an NPC corp, you're immune to war decs. If you're in highsec, you're immune to everything else. If people continued to harass you at that point, you could probably petition them, but I doubt its a common occurence.

But I support the right to gank expensively fit ships, because it keeps some of the crazy mudflation in highsec in check. Otherwise everyone would aspire to fly 10B ISK monstrosities.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#363 - 2013-03-22 20:42:36 UTC
I think it probably encourages people to move out of highsec also, just because they come to understand that if you're flying an expensive fit for highsec mission money then you're taking too much risk for too little reward and there's too much noise in highsec to identify threats easily.

forums.  serious business.
DrHekki
Confederacy of Independent Forces
#364 - 2013-03-22 20:46:12 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Dev soundwave wrote.

"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."

What is everyones opinion?


I think eve which is a player driven game makes anything possible, including ganking. if people are stupid enough to put their assets straight in the hold of a hauler or transport ship and autopilot it thought 0.5 space then im sorry anything is game.

I know that people don't want that aspect of the game because they find missioning enough content but eve is a totally different MMORPG.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2013-03-22 20:49:23 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I think it probably encourages people to move out of highsec also, just because they come to understand that if you're flying an expensive fit for highsec mission money then you're taking too much risk for too little reward and there's too much noise in highsec to identify threats easily.


Yeah to the last bit. "Watch local" is fine advice in low and null, but not much good when a quiet highsec system will have two dozen players in it.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#366 - 2013-03-22 20:53:21 UTC
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
RustyPwnStar
Azn Empire
#367 - 2013-03-22 20:54:30 UTC
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#368 - 2013-03-22 20:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Takseen wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I think it probably encourages people to move out of highsec also, just because they come to understand that if you're flying an expensive fit for highsec mission money then you're taking too much risk for too little reward and there's too much noise in highsec to identify threats easily.


Yeah to the last bit. "Watch local" is fine advice in low and null, but not much good when a quiet highsec system will have two dozen players in it.


You can get round that to a degree, I have a lot of the known ninja and ganker groups, as well as the boys from Goonswarm and some of the mercs that like to indulge in piracy set to poor standing so that they show up as possible trouble both in local and on the overview.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#369 - 2013-03-22 21:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgina Parmala
Takseen wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I think it probably encourages people to move out of highsec also, just because they come to understand that if you're flying an expensive fit for highsec mission money then you're taking too much risk for too little reward and there's too much noise in highsec to identify threats easily.


Yeah to the last bit. "Watch local" is fine advice in low and null, but not much good when a quiet highsec system will have two dozen players in it.


I'm sorry. If suddenly 5 people with -10 sec status show up in local and sit there 5-10 minutes before ganking you, you should have checked local. If there are 4-5 outlaws all docked at your home station next to the Ice belt and a dozen asteroid belts, you should have checked local and the guest list.

If you did see them there and still went to mine, untanked, stationary, unaligned and went afk... There is little hope for you.

Edit: You referring to a miner ignoring the information presented by the game for their safety, not you in particular.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#370 - 2013-03-22 21:05:01 UTC
I dont need to prove my opinion. It is just that. I am glad Tippia that you speak for Soundwave now and are able to say he was wrong. I am sure he approves.

I have stated my case as have others and I will not continue to argue over invalid points because you dont agree. You and people like you do this for every thread you dont agree with.

You choose to ignore valid points of views that differ from your own and try and turn it into a troll thread until it gets locked.

Soundwave said what he said and it was quoted I agree with him, ganking should not yield profit.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#371 - 2013-03-22 21:06:57 UTC
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#372 - 2013-03-22 21:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:

Soundwave said what he said and it was quoted I agree with him, ganking should not yield profit.

It's been repeatedly pointed out that his statement only applied to unfitted mining ships, it is NOT a blanket statement saying that all ganking should be unprofitable.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Zircon Dasher
#373 - 2013-03-22 21:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Sheep wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?


His name is Robert Paulson

His name is Robert Paulson

His name is.......Lol

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#374 - 2013-03-22 21:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Georgina Parmala wrote:
I'm sorry. If suddenly 5 people with -10 sec status show up in local and sit there 5-10 minutes before ganking you, you should have checked local. If there are 4-5 outlaws all docked at your home station next to the Ice belt and a dozen asteroid belts, you should have checked local and the guest list.

If you did see them there and still went to mine, untanked, stationary, unaligned and went afk... There is little hope for you.

Edit: You referring to a miner ignoring the information presented by the game for their safety, not you in particular.


it's not just miners that get ganked though and that's a problem for highsec mission runners because you could have any number of red things in local and still be safe until you see combat probes, but are those combat probes concerned about you? do they even belong to the pirates? what if they have a corpmate or alt scanning for them in a covops ship? they could have warped in already and bookmarked the mission room.

if you have those concerns in nullsec then you just wait for them to **** off out of local. in highsec you have no idea what's going on .

forums.  serious business.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2013-03-22 21:12:47 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:


I'm sorry. If suddenly 5 people with -10 sec status show up in local and sit there 5-10 minutes before ganking you, you should have checked local. If there are 4-5 outlaws all docked at your home station next to the Ice belt and a dozen asteroid belts, you should have checked local and the guest list.


Well if that's what gankers can get away with doing, shame on the miners. I thought they'd enter the system and be ready to warp to the neutral spotter immediately.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#376 - 2013-03-22 21:15:05 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
I dont need to prove my opinion. It is just that. I am glad Tippia that you speak for Soundwave now and are able to say he was wrong. I am sure he approves.

I have stated my case as have others and I will not continue to argue over invalid points because you dont agree. You and people like you do this for every thread you dont agree with.

You choose to ignore valid points of views that differ from your own and try and turn it into a troll thread until it gets locked.

Soundwave said what he said and it was quoted I agree with him, ganking should not yield profit.


You offered solutions in this thread such as reducing module drop rate in high sec to make ganking mission ships unprofitable.

This is completely unrelated to what you have quoted. You failed to consider what that suggestion does to high sec wars or people who die in a mission and retrieve their own wreck. You have not provided arguments of any kind. You have failed to so much as define a problem. All you do is stomp your feet that ganking in high sec should not yield profit to the ganker.

We are still waiting for you to actually present an argument.

ar·gu·ment
a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point:


Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Whitehound
#377 - 2013-03-22 21:18:13 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Maybe because it is too easy. Compare how complicated it is to manufacture T2 items - from getting moon goo, to protecting moons, to reactions, to invention - with how easy it is to loot a wreck. Or take officer items and how rare they are, and when they drop does it need only little repair if any at all and it is like new.

It would not hurt the game if the 50% drop chance would get replaced by something more complex and fun. People often point out how stupid WoW is and then they get all sparkly eyes when they seeessz preccessioussz lootszz.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#378 - 2013-03-22 21:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Whitehound wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Maybe because it is too easy. Compare how complicated it is to manufacture T2 items - from getting moon goo, to protecting moons, to reactions, to invention - with how easy it is to loot a wreck. Or take officer items and how rare they are, and when they drop does it need only little repair if any at all and it is like new.

It would not hurt the game if the 50% drop chance would get replaced by something more complex and fun. People often point out how stupid WoW is and then they get all sparkly eyes when they seeessz preccessioussz lootszz.


Which bit is too easy, the looting or the ganking?

If it's the ganking, it's only relatively easy because of the complacency of the victims.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#379 - 2013-03-22 21:35:57 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:


I'm sorry. If suddenly 5 people with -10 sec status show up in local and sit there 5-10 minutes before ganking you, you should have checked local. If there are 4-5 outlaws all docked at your home station next to the Ice belt and a dozen asteroid belts, you should have checked local and the guest list.


Well if that's what gankers can get away with doing, shame on the miners. I thought they'd enter the system and be ready to warp to the neutral spotter immediately.


When the player behind the target barge has not looked at his screen, or touched his keyboard in 20 minutes, there is no need.

Skeln Thargensen wrote:

it's not just miners that get ganked though and that's a problem for highsec mission runners because you could have any number of red things in local and still be safe until you see combat probes, but are those combat probes concerned about you? do they even belong to the pirates? what if they have a corpmate or alt scanning for them in a covops ship? they could have warped in already and bookmarked the mission room.

if you have those concerns in nullsec then you just wait for them to **** off out of local. in highsec you have no idea what's going on .

If you have red things in local, you are only as safe as the precautions you take.

To start with, you can set your DScan range to somewhere in the 1-4 AU range. If you see 5+ combat probes on dscan at that range, you align out. If the mission is gated, you will see them on scan when they activate the gate and have plenty of time to warp out. You can always turn down ungated missions or hop a system or two over for the day.

Or you can just not make yourself a target by fitting 5 bil of modules to a 300 mil hull and relax. As a general rule, I keep the cost of my fittings about equal to the price of the hull.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Whitehound
#380 - 2013-03-22 21:40:39 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Maybe because it is too easy. Compare how complicated it is to manufacture T2 items - from getting moon goo, to protecting moons, to reactions, to invention - with how easy it is to loot a wreck. Or take officer items and how rare they are, and when they drop does it need only little repair if any at all and it is like new.

It would not hurt the game if the 50% drop chance would get replaced by something more complex and fun. People often point out how stupid WoW is and then they get all sparkly eyes when they seeessz preccessioussz lootszz.


Which bit is too easy, the looting or the ganking?

If it's the ganking, it's only relatively easy because of the complacency of the victims.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

You are complacent, too, when you think ganking should be this easy.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.