EVE New Citizens Q&A

Everyone in my corp i've talked to is saying I shouldn't fly T2 fits that cost 10m, when I can fly T1 that cost 1-2m - At least while i'm still brand new to pvp.

But i've had others saying to me that having T2 over T1 really does make a difference, so since I can afford it, why not just fit T2?

The rate i'm losing ships though, it feels as though these 10m per ship will add up pretty fast, but if I end up in a fight where I could have won if I had "a little more tank" or "a little more dps", then i'd be pretty gutted that I hadn't fitted T2.

Seriously, everybody is saying different things and its just confusing the hell out of me! Got some people saying T1, some saying T2, I just don't know what to fly!

TL;DR Still a noob to pvp, can afford T2 fits, but should I stick with T1 since i'm getting owned by everyone atm

There's 3 reasons for it

- T2 and faction ships can make good pilots better, but they don't make inexperienced/bad players good. You need quite a bit of support skills to make use of a T2 ships and to have them work as advertised. Add to that the fact that you can insure T1 ships for almost the full cost of the hull whereas you only get a fraction insurance if you lose a T2.

- Then you get to the point of getting experience; lets face it, you're going to lose a ton of ships before you start making sense of it and because of that it might as well be cheapo ships because you'll learn just as much from losing a cheap T1 frig as you do from losing an AF or intie.

- EVE is about what you KNOW, not what you fly. If you're good you'll be good in any ship, if you're bad or a newbie you're going to be bad in all ships. Wasting money in the hopes of it helping you get better results is exactly that; a waste. It will not help you, stop thinking in "must get tier 12 armor and this uber Sword of a Thousands Truths before I can compete", EVE isn't like that.

To clarify: the OP is referring to fitting T2 modules on his (presumably) T1 frigates. Note the cost references of 10M and 1-2M Isk, respectively.

OP: don't use T1-meta0 modules on your pvp ships, if that's what you're doing. Instead, use named meta modules wherever and whenever they give an advantage over garden variety T1-meta0 modules, which is pretty much always. Please note the difference between named meta1-4 modules, and named faction/deadspace modules. The former are often cheap, the latter almost never.

You can see the "Meta Level" on a module in its Show Info/Attributes panel. Meta 0 modules are ones that you can manufacture yourself, given a blueprint and some minerals. Meta 1-4 modules are drops from garden variety rats. Meta 5 modules are T2, and meta > 5 are bling faction/deadspace/etc loot.

The performance difference between T2 modules and meta-3/4 modules is often not very much, and meta modules often have easier fitting requirements. Meta 4 modules, however, are often even more expensive than T2, so shop wisely.

The biggest place that T2 gives you an advantage is in your guns. Not because they do more damage (the difference between T2 and meta4 is only the difference from your associated T2 weapons skill, usually 4-8%) but because they allow you the flexibility to use the specialized T2 ammo, most notably barrage, scorch, and null. If you don't know how to use these ammo types effectively then T2 guns are frankly a waste, assuming meta4 aren't more expensive (they often are).

Also, always use faction (or T2) ammo on pvp ships. You don't need to carry much ammo in a frigate (usually just 1 reload, unless going on a long roam), and it is highly cost-effective in small amounts.

i agree with the previous speakers. if you are new to pvp, you should not waste money on t2 fits before you have fought at least a few dozen fights. the only exception may be light lasers with scorch (a very powerful kind of T2 ammo).

Thanks for the advice all, its been honestly really helpful!

I have decided i'm going for Meta 2-4 modules depending on how much they cost (trying to keep the overall total cost of the ship 3mill or less, and tbh i'm only finding a small loss in damage and speed for the most part, like 5-8%, which considering its 7mill odd cheaper, is amazing imo) - Heck, done more ship building now than I have since i've started!

I understand now that T2 weapons seem to be the most worthwhile expense due to use of the T2 ammo, but if I stick with T1 guns, won't faction ammo such as Caldari Navy Antimatter still be pretty good? Since i've worked out its more cost effective to use this and T1 guns rather than the T2 with EMP S for example, and not a large difference in dps for the most part.

Well, i've fitted a Merlin up last night, testing various modules and such, and was debating between Light Neutron Blaster II's which are 1.2m odd each, or a Meta 2-3 equivilant with Caldari Navy, and the DPS difference is nowhere near as big as I would have thought, and the Meta 2-3's guns were around 200-300k each.

Tank wise i've not really experienced many problems either when it comes to using Meta 2-4, achieving 5.6k EHP on my Merlin, and overall cost w the Meta 2/3 guns around 2mill

Heck,, either way i'm having loads of fun with ship fitting! haha

regarding ammo: faction ammo is usually the way to go in pvp. you only need a thousand or so rounds on each ship, so it is not that big an investment. and if/when you start surviving fights, you usually have to dock up anyway, so you may as well buy another thousand rounds then.

edit: another thing that can help your balance is looting your opponent. you can then either be good guy greg and contract the loot back to him or just keep it and use it yourself.

Since this is in the new player Q & A, maybe I can sum this up without all the eve jargon.

The most important lesson to learn in PvP is what type of ship you are facing and how to counter that ship. One type might be effective at long range while another maybe more effective at short range. Each type is going to try to make the encounter work to their advantage. So to paraphrase. A good pilot knows what to do against each type of ship and hopefully has taken the time to effectively fit his or her own ship and knows how to use his or her set-up to its maximum effect.

As a new pilot, our experience is limited. We don't know to counter a missile boat or a blaster boat, a tank boat or a shield boat. We don't know how to counter a warp scrambler, or a target painter. The list is long and the lessons are not taught in tutorial missions or through PvE style encounters. They are taught through the brutal reality of getting your ship whacked. And your pod squished.

Hence the phrases like: "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose." [You are going to lose it at some point].
And phrases like: "Always check your clone." [You are lucky if you only get podded].

While learning the veterans are telling us to use T1 cheap Frigates. Insure them, keep your clone up to date, and get podded over and over again until we learn those hard lessons.

Spending more money than is necessary is not wise. T2 is 10 times more expensive, but only gives us a small increase in abilities.

Stated simply "It's not worth it."

Hopefully that sums it up.

Thanks for the correction.

I think I am going add something that is not clear to newer pilots. To a veteran pilot, when they see the ship type and maybe even the name of the Pilot. They instantly know, the weapons, the range, and the tactics they can employ. They instantly know if their set up is bad, and they won't win. Think of it as rock, paper, sissers. They know if they are up against a hard counter. Therefore they know if its time to escape and evade or whether its time to engage.

Further a veteran pilot knows if they are going to engage, how they are going to do it, and how they are going to counter the other ship's abilities.

For those new to PvP, I may not know that a Catalyst with a full blaster set up would be dangerous in close, but almost pitiful from any kind of range. But that same Catalyst using rails might pose more a problem from range. There are hundreds of ships with a multitude of varying weapon set ups, ECW capabilities and defense options. Add to that the varying degrees of experience of each Pilot and the complexity level has increased exponentially.

The point is again. A new Player can listen to chat and read the forums, can watch all the videos they want, and maybe they will knock a few bloody nose encounters off of the learning curve. Still there will be bloody noses and the learning curve is steep. Don't make it too expensive to boot.

Regarding "fights I would have won with just a little more tank/etc":

No, no you would not have.

This is the reason to stick with T1 for a while. When you're winning about half your fights, T2 will push that up significantly. When you're winning 0 to 10% of your fights, T2 will make no difference whatsoever. So you might as well fly cheap until you work out all the kinks.

EDIT: Albeit, if T2 mods don't seem cheap to you, go for it. I usually slot T2 DCU, for instance.