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Which Minmatar BS - PVE L4?
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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-18 18:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Auduin Samson wrote:
I use a cap injected auto-mael with an MWD. Slowboating is now done at 760m/s.

Right now, the mael is really the most effective minmatar BS for PVE, but this may change once the Typhoon gets revamped as a missile boat. Hopefully the Tempest also gets a facelift, as it is currently painfully inferior to other Tier 2 battleships in L4 missions. Once tiers are done away with at the battleship level all three ships will most likely become worthy choices, but right now your best bet is to run with a mael while training for a mach.


I'm not seeing how cruise > AC, with the assumed phon revamp.

As for arty, use ACs whenever possible, and arty only when you have to. It's the worst dps gun, compared to 2nd best dps gun, which also happen to have excellent projection. On a Mach/Vargur with falloff bonus, AC range covers any mission. Even on Mael/pest without falloff bonus, AC still covers almost all missions, with only a handful of exceptions.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#22 - 2013-03-18 19:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
sabre906 wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
I use a cap injected auto-mael with an MWD. Slowboating is now done at 760m/s.

Right now, the mael is really the most effective minmatar BS for PVE, but this may change once the Typhoon gets revamped as a missile boat. Hopefully the Tempest also gets a facelift, as it is currently painfully inferior to other Tier 2 battleships in L4 missions. Once tiers are done away with at the battleship level all three ships will most likely become worthy choices, but right now your best bet is to run with a mael while training for a mach.


I'm not seeing how cruise > AC, with the assumed phon revamp.

As for arty, use ACs whenever possible, and arty only when you have to. It's the worst dps gun, compared to 2nd best dps gun, which also happen to have excellent projection. On a Mach/Vargur with falloff bonus, AC range covers any mission. Even on Mael/pest without falloff bonus, AC still covers almost all missions, with only a handful of exceptions.


I'm not sure how you're figuring DPS, but Autocannons are balanced to have inherently less DPS than both Pulses and Hybrids.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-03-18 19:17:30 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
I use a cap injected auto-mael with an MWD. Slowboating is now done at 760m/s.

Right now, the mael is really the most effective minmatar BS for PVE, but this may change once the Typhoon gets revamped as a missile boat. Hopefully the Tempest also gets a facelift, as it is currently painfully inferior to other Tier 2 battleships in L4 missions. Once tiers are done away with at the battleship level all three ships will most likely become worthy choices, but right now your best bet is to run with a mael while training for a mach.


I'm not seeing how cruise > AC, with the assumed phon revamp.

As for arty, use ACs whenever possible, and arty only when you have to. It's the worst dps gun, compared to 2nd best dps gun, which also happen to have excellent projection. On a Mach/Vargur with falloff bonus, AC range covers any mission. Even on Mael/pest without falloff bonus, AC still covers almost all missions, with only a handful of exceptions.


I'm not sure how you're figuring DPS, but Autocannons are balanced to have inherently less DPS than both Pulses and Hybrids.


Less dps than blasters (no, not hybrids, because rails are also hybrids, but have the 2nd lowest dps), with far better projection, that's it.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#24 - 2013-03-18 19:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
sabre906 wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
I use a cap injected auto-mael with an MWD. Slowboating is now done at 760m/s.

Right now, the mael is really the most effective minmatar BS for PVE, but this may change once the Typhoon gets revamped as a missile boat. Hopefully the Tempest also gets a facelift, as it is currently painfully inferior to other Tier 2 battleships in L4 missions. Once tiers are done away with at the battleship level all three ships will most likely become worthy choices, but right now your best bet is to run with a mael while training for a mach.


I'm not seeing how cruise > AC, with the assumed phon revamp.

As for arty, use ACs whenever possible, and arty only when you have to. It's the worst dps gun, compared to 2nd best dps gun, which also happen to have excellent projection. On a Mach/Vargur with falloff bonus, AC range covers any mission. Even on Mael/pest without falloff bonus, AC still covers almost all missions, with only a handful of exceptions.


I'm not sure how you're figuring DPS, but Autocannons are balanced to have inherently less DPS than both Pulses and Hybrids.


Less dps than blasters (no, not hybrids, because rails are also hybrids, but have the 2nd lowest dps), with far better projection, that's it.

I mentioned pulses in my post.

Edit: Oh I see what you're saying. You consider AC overall better than blasters due to projection.

In that case, sure the argument can be made AC is the second best DPS gun for PVE.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-03-18 19:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
I use a cap injected auto-mael with an MWD. Slowboating is now done at 760m/s.

Right now, the mael is really the most effective minmatar BS for PVE, but this may change once the Typhoon gets revamped as a missile boat. Hopefully the Tempest also gets a facelift, as it is currently painfully inferior to other Tier 2 battleships in L4 missions. Once tiers are done away with at the battleship level all three ships will most likely become worthy choices, but right now your best bet is to run with a mael while training for a mach.


I'm not seeing how cruise > AC, with the assumed phon revamp.

As for arty, use ACs whenever possible, and arty only when you have to. It's the worst dps gun, compared to 2nd best dps gun, which also happen to have excellent projection. On a Mach/Vargur with falloff bonus, AC range covers any mission. Even on Mael/pest without falloff bonus, AC still covers almost all missions, with only a handful of exceptions.


I'm not sure how you're figuring DPS, but Autocannons are balanced to have inherently less DPS than both Pulses and Hybrids.


Less dps than blasters (no, not hybrids, because rails are also hybrids, but have the 2nd lowest dps), with far better projection, that's it.

I mentioned pulses in my post.

Edit: Oh I see what you're saying. You consider AC overall better than blasters due to projection.

In that case, sure the argument can be made AC is the second best DPS gun for PVE.


Yeah, there's pulse with multi, but it's not the same as AC's t1 low range ammo that's not actually low range. Pulse pretty much equals scorch these days. Where blasters are expected to have null.

And by AC being 2nd, I didn't mean pulse with multi (lol) as 1st, That goes to tach.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#26 - 2013-03-18 20:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
sabre906 wrote:


Yeah, there's pulse with multi, but it's not the same as AC's t1 low range ammo that's not actually low range. Pulse pretty much equals scorch these days. Where blasters are expected to have null.

And by AC being 2nd, I didn't mean pulse with multi (lol) as 1st, That goes to tach.


I'm not seeing it. The projection is the same at Multi vs. Phased Plasma. 50% DPS at 27 km vs 25 km, pulse gets the instant crystal swap, etc. And the DPS of multi is still higher as well. You compare scorch to comparable T2 AC ammo, Barrage, same story. Compare scorch to phased plasma, scorch has 90% of the DPS with twice the range.

Any point within scorch range, your applying higher DPS than an autocannon. I think your views might be skewed by hulls like the machariel.

Edit: I can even swap to gamma for an equal DPS to Phased plasma, while enjoying further projection, in case I was somehow unhappy with both scorch and multi. Also Tach isn't a weapon system, but CCP's special little unique gift to amarr.

Edit again: In fact, if you were to clone an energy weapon variant of the machariel, comparable fit (7 guns), same slot layout (I gave it 3 heat sinks and 2 scripted TCs), exchanging the falloff bonus for an optimal bonus, you'd have completely replaced the mach as the king of gunnery, with scorch doing 850 DPS any point inside 90km. Gamma at 46km with 886 DPS. Conflag at 30km with 1192. A nightmare needs 4 heat sinks and still doesn't hit numbers like this. The mach certainly doesn't.
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