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Is High Sec a Mith?

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#101 - 2013-03-18 16:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:


So you dont understand the difference between carrying around a bunch of loot or fitting your ship?


Fitting or carrying high value items makes you a target, don't like it? then don't do it.

Quote:
Smart has nothing to do with it. This person could be running a mission and get ganked.

And your point is?

Quote:
Again it is a problem for the people getting ganked. They worked hard to make thier big nice shiny ships and they shouldnt be vunerable to a few low cost high dps fit ships.

The only problem I see is that the OP expected to be immune from the actions of other players in an open ended PvP multiplayer game. BTW 5x fitted tier 3 battle cruisers comes out at the best part of 3/4 billion Isk if not more, so not exactly cheap either.

Quote:
You guys scream risk vs reward non stop on these forum. This should be no different. Gankers should not be able to use little effort and destroy high value targets.

Coordinating a 5 player gank takes a considerable amount of effort, not a little.

I can pretty much guarantee that the gank operation took a fair amount of prior planning, which involved ship scanning potential targets, making sure that all the required pilots were in the right place, with the right equipment, at the right time to carry the operation off without a hitch, all of which are effort.

Even after all the effort put into the planning and execution the loot fairy can still crap on gankers from a great height, in this case they took the risk and got little or no reward for their efforts, are they whining about risk vs reward? The answer is no, because next time the loot fairy may well smile upon them with lots and lots of shiny stuff.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#102 - 2013-03-18 16:32:07 UTC
it's really a mithstery why you aren't the one laughing here. they got robbed.

forums.  serious business.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#103 - 2013-03-18 16:36:19 UTC
Namdor wrote:

If it's so important to them, they should take some simple common-sense steps to protect it.


How dare you suggest Effort!? Don't you know how many missions and incursions those people had to run to get all that bling, they should have a right to be immune to all but similarly blingy ships!

Just like in real life. I mean it's not as if you can shoot down a billion dollar jet fighter with a 100 dollar hand held missile. That would be wrong and would mean life and reality are unbalanced.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-03-18 16:40:05 UTC
Mith?

You mean like Mithril like the elves wear?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
horpaskron
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2013-03-18 16:40:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Namdor wrote:

If it's so important to them, they should take some simple common-sense steps to protect it.


How dare you suggest Effort!? Don't you know how many missions and incursions those people had to run to get all that bling, they should have a right to be immune to all but similarly blingy ships!

Just like in real life. I mean it's not as if you can shoot down a billion dollar jet fighter with a 100 dollar hand held missile. That would be wrong and would mean life and reality are unbalanced.







Damn.... I LIKE!!! ^^
Josef Djugashvilis
#106 - 2013-03-18 16:46:08 UTC
Well at least she got the pvp bit right.

http://evewho.com/corp/Pacific+Glori+NZ

This is not a signature.
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-03-18 16:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
Abrazzar wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:

Has something to do with the angle you undock at and some triangle geometry.

If I understand it right, the closer you are to the undock with your warp, the greater the angle you have to align yourself from the deviated angle to the straight instant warp angle.

So with a far enough away bookmark, even a freighter will warp instantly, even with maximum ejection velocity and maximum undock deviation angle.

Of course this will also depend on the accuracy of your bookmark. Flying straight isn't always as easy as it looks.


That makes zero sense because range as such has nothing to do with it, only angle. So if someone undocks at a certain angle and then burns away without correcting his path and makes a BM at 170 and 500km you'll get the same behaviour when you undock and use either of those BM's. One could argue that it would be easier to correct your BM direction when you're further away but that's not really true, it's about doing it right and not about how far it is from station.

There's of course a good reason to make a BM some 500-1000km away from station but it has nothing to do with your angle and everything to do with wanting to be off grid. For more info on undock bookmarks and other undocking tricks check my guides, link is in my sig.

Guess I am thinking too much in triangles and not enough in vectors. I was always bad with vectors.


Actually range does have something to do with it, it's all about how ships undock now. Before stations always spat you out in exactly the same direction, nowadays they have a slight varitation on the angle that you come out with, preventing instas as they used to be. So now you ship has to do a correction every time you want to jump to the insta, and the further away it is, the shallower the angle and so smaller correction before warp.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-03-18 16:52:46 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Posting in stealth nerf-hisec thread. False-flag carebear alt of a nullbear is obvious.


Unless the killmail is removed for lack of verification, I doubt it.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-03-18 16:54:24 UTC
-10/10. No seriously this is awful.

Dodixie > Hek
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#110 - 2013-03-18 16:57:31 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Thats your opinion and your entitled to it no matter how wrong. People need a sence of balance in any game. This is not balanced at this point. People can fit high dps low cost fits and make a profit.


Only if the people being ganked make it profitable for them. I can't think of a single unfit ship that's profitable to gank just for the salvage from hull.

Quote:
Let em make thier profit in low/null. Oh wait they cant because people are fit and ready for pvp thier most times. They may get thier arse handed to them.


So what, exactly, is stopping you from fitting for PvP in HS and kicking their ass there? Gank ships tend to have really low EHP, so you shouldn't have much trouble killing them before their target dies... if you're as prepared as they are.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-03-18 17:03:55 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:

- Make a insta undock bookmark. The further away, the faster you align to it, so make it larger then 500-1000KM

What?


Fly out of a station to 500km or more and then make a bookmark. When you undock you right click and warp to bookmark.

The velocity your traveling at when you leave the station means you pretty much warp instantly, usually before anyone has a chance to lock and fire on you. Distance has no bearing on align time, but velocity does.

You set it to 500km+ because it usually means your our of visual overview range. Common tactic in low and null to avoid gate campers, useful when flying shiny ships in high to save your arse from gankers.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#112 - 2013-03-18 17:07:27 UTC
Yah, high security does not mean total security.

I lost 1B in goods a few years ago when I hauled in a cargo-fitted, tissue-armored Itty. I learned my lesson the hard way. But that's Eve, and that's why this game is awesome. Just remember that this is a game. Fly well.
Zark Darkfigure
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-03-18 17:13:27 UTC
How dare you to walk around in shiny bling in our hood and dont even donate for our war funds???
How can you think you wont get your shiny i-pad, shoes and jacket ripped in the dark corner of eve???
What else to do with positive sec stat but ganking it down to get a reason to rat it up again???
Aint that the circle of eve-life???
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#114 - 2013-03-18 17:26:27 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
So you dont understand the difference between carrying around a bunch of loot or fitting your ship?
Oh, I understand the difference: there is none. You fill your ship with valuables; you make yourself a valuable target; and if you don't take the precautions that need to come with it, you get ganked and lose your valuables. Whether you choose to put the valuables in your cargo hold or in your slots is utterly and completely irrelevant.

It is as it should be.

Quote:
Smart has nothing to do with it. This person could be running a mission and get ganked.
…which was dumb of him. So yes, being smart has a lot to do with it. A smart person would avoid putting themselves in a position where they're worth ganking, and if they do choose that for whatever reason, they take the precautions needed to avoid being ganked.

Quote:
Again it is a problem for the people getting ganked.
Then they should solve their problem, because that's where the problem is: with them. It is not a problem with the game.

Quote:
They worked hard to make thier big nice shiny ships and they shouldnt be vunerable to a few low cost high dps fit ships.
Yes they should. If they worked that hard to make their big nice shiny ship, they should take care of it. It should always be vulnerable to low-cost high-DPS ships because cost is not a factor in balance. If they spend a bajillion on a ship fit that offers no protection, and the other guy spends a bottlecap and a piece of gum on a fit that delivers massive DPS, the latter should always win, or there's something properly wrong with the balance.

Quote:
People need a sence of balance in any game.
Yes, please do. Cost is not a balancing factor. Costly ships going poof to cheap ships is balance. People making mint of other people's inability to protect their assets is balance. People being idiots and making themselves worth-while to kill is not a balance problem — quite the opposite: it's proof positive that the game is working as it should.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-03-18 17:33:05 UTC
Believe it or not, OP, you won the fight. The gankers probably lost the better part of a billion ISK ganking your Golem, and they didn't get your shield booster (or your pod, from the looks of it).

Is "high sec" a myth? No way. In low sec, they might have pulled that off with 1 Tornado or Talos. They wouldn't necessarily have lost a ship. They wouldn't have killrights hanging around their necks. In null, if you'd been in a bubble, they would have gotten your pod, too, almost guaranteed.

Losing a ship always sucks, even just a shuttle, but it would suck far worse if you had paid them to kill you. You fitted your ship smart by not putting stupid amounts of bling onto it. You dangled a shiny object in front of them. They gambled. They lost. It may not be satisfying, but sometimes, this is what winning looks like. In the real world, a 39 cent bullet can negate an Albert Einstein. The doers of violence have the advantage. EVE is just a reflection of that real-life imbalance.

One thing you may not be appreciating is that it took coordination and planning to pull off such an attack. There were at least 6 characters (5 shooters + 1 loot scooper). Someone locked and scanned your ship. (Maybe you noticed. Maybe you didn't.) Someone added up the value of all your ship's modules to determine if it was even worth trying to gank. People bought and fitted those Tier 3 BCs, etc., etc., etc. All of that effort was negated by a simple flip of a coin. I'm surprised the gankers aren't the ones on here complaining.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#116 - 2013-03-18 17:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Namdor wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:


So you dont understand the difference between carrying around a bunch of loot or fitting your ship?

Smart has nothing to do with it. This person could be running a mission and get ganked.


Uh... if they're *smart*, it is very unlikely that will get ganked.

"Smart" could be accomplished any number of ways in this scenario.

-Don't needlessly bling your mission ship. This will make you an unattractive target and, thus, unlikely to be ganked.

-If you do needlessly bling your mission ship, use instant-undocks when leaving the station and keep an eye on your D-scan for combat probes/nearby ships while you're in your missions.

This will not give you perfect safety, but you're not supposed to have perfect safety. It will keep you generally safe, however. Avoid stargates and you will be EXTREMELY safe, even in a blinged ship.


Quote:
Again it is a problem for the people getting ganked.


Otherwise known as a "personal problem". It's not a problem for the GAME that they got ganked. It's a problem for them, and only for them.

Quote:
They worked hard to make thier big nice shiny ships and they shouldnt be vunerable to a few low cost high dps fit ships.


If it's so important to them, they should take some simple common-sense steps to protect it.



Not a personal problem when they pay thier monthly fee just like you and I do.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#117 - 2013-03-18 17:50:01 UTC
I propose removing CONCORD protection for people who can't spell "myth" correctly or know the difference between "sense" and "sence" (hint: one of them isn't even a real word).

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#118 - 2013-03-18 17:51:16 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I propose removing CONCORD protection for people who can't spell "myth" correctly or know the difference between "sense" and "sence" (hint: one of them isn't even a real word).

I propose removing CONCORD.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#119 - 2013-03-18 17:54:10 UTC
Tippia,


Smart has zero to do with it. People who are brilliant at this game can and do fall victim to this game flaw. You can and will argue all you want but it still wont change the truth or the facts. It is what it is at the moment.

Needs fixed. People will not gank high value non cargo carrying ships if they loose money.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#120 - 2013-03-18 17:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Not a personal problem when they pay thier monthly fee just like you and I do.
They made the mistake. The game is working as intended.
The problem is with them — i.e. it's a personal problem.

The solution is for them to stop making the mistakes that get them killed.

Quote:
Smart has zero to do with it.
…except that smart people don't have this problem. Largely because smart people understand what they did wrong if they ever explode unexpectedly and then do it differently the next time.

It is not a game flaw that ships explode — it's rather the purpose of the ships.

Quote:
People will not gank high value non cargo carrying ships if they loose money.
So nothing needs fixing then, since this is already the case.