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And you thought HI was too safe???? Welcome to Thunderdome™

First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2013-03-16 20:59:21 UTC
Let's say we remove all moon products and replace it in Null with something else bringning in just as much isk but not based on something automated. The players would need to do something or the ISK stops flowing in. What could it be?

It sadly can't really be based on PvP because you can't force it to happen...

Industry unless it's majorly changed would still happen in high instead of null.

Not sure if people would be "ok" with ratting with an alliance level taxe.

Mission are hard to implement without more stations to put agents in.

PI? Yes let's change passive for passive...

Trading taxes? Go to high sec.

We are at least knee deep in mud by now...
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-03-16 21:00:31 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


what 2-4 years from nowQuestion? ShockedRoll


Whenever its done. Ship balance is more important than moon goo.


No it isn't now


Why? Ship balance affect the whole EvE population. Moon goo affect null people and people bitching about moon goo. Pretty sure there are more people in "the whole eve population".
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#103 - 2013-03-16 21:04:46 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


what 2-4 years from nowQuestion? ShockedRoll


Whenever its done. Ship balance is more important than moon goo.


No it isn't now

Moon goo is imbalanced and needs to be addressed. Nobody said otherwise.
Ship balancing however takes priority.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#104 - 2013-03-16 21:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Frostys Virpio wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


what 2-4 years from nowQuestion? ShockedRoll


Whenever its done. Ship balance is more important than moon goo.


No it isn't now


Why? Ship balance affect the whole EvE population. Moon goo affect null people and people bitching about moon goo. Pretty sure there are more people in "the whole eve population".


The economy affects EVERY1 in the Sandbox...
ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2013-03-16 21:23:33 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


The economy affects EVERY1 in the Sandbox...
ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID


Where moon goo supply comes from means squat to most people while ship balance impacts everyone.
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-03-16 21:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnoshia
DarthNefarius wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Andski wrote:
hisec incursion runners are upset over how things are done, refuse to do anything about it despite having hundreds of billions of isk to play with, opt to run more incursions instead



Atcually I think Andski you are corrcet in that many HISEC incursioners are siting on multi billions of ISK.... but not next to the multi trillions of TECH ISK NULL sec coalitions are sittng on....Roll That isprobably the biggest imbalance Eve is looking at, at the moment


INB4 we are the 99%

GTFO with that socialism garbage

You don't see capitals being popped and replaced in hisec do you? Those moons are needed to replace big ship losses. Now if you want to reduce it from trillions to one or two trillion then fine. Whatever. People will just have to manage their finances and losses a little better to compensate.
Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#107 - 2013-03-16 21:45:26 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.
No I'm pretty sure tech plays a big part as one of the many problems.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

General Nusense
Doomheim
#108 - 2013-03-16 21:46:19 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.


and why is the sov grind a problem?

i shall answer this for you.

everyone is blue to each other. get rid of the mile long blue lists and sov grinding wont be a problem. but that would require balls. which no sov holding alliance, except solar, have.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-03-16 21:47:49 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.


and why is the sov grind a problem?

i shall answer this for you.

everyone is blue to each other. get rid of the mile long blue lists and sov grinding wont be a problem. but that would require balls. which no sov holding alliance, except solar, have.


HBC and CFC are blue to each other. Confirm/deny?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#110 - 2013-03-16 21:50:43 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.


and why is the sov grind a problem?

i shall answer this for you.

everyone is blue to each other. get rid of the mile long blue lists and sov grinding wont be a problem. but that would require balls. which no sov holding alliance, except solar, have.


Might want to catch up on current events, your picture of null is out of date be well over a month.
Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2013-03-16 22:29:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
General Nusense wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tech isn't the problem. The sov grind is.


and why is the sov grind a problem?

i shall answer this for you.

everyone is blue to each other. get rid of the mile long blue lists and sov grinding wont be a problem. but that would require balls. which no sov holding alliance, except solar, have.


HBC and CFC are blue to each other. Confirm/deny?


Well , what are coalitions ? Oh yeah , a bunch of alliances blue to each other. And even if these coalitions aren't blue to other coalitions they have become so big that they can't even be bothered to kill each other anymore and instead start playing Total war: Cloud ring.

Bad posts are not welcome on these forums.  -CCP Falcon

Rhavin Kha'siere
Starkiller's Ocean Club
#112 - 2013-03-16 23:00:29 UTC
Nullbears love to rant about how hisec is all risk-averse. While that may be true, that doesn't mean those selfsame nullbears aren't risk averse either. Case in point, this idea of Cloud Ring (which is really just a player organized version of a PVP Arena, complete with rules and judges). If a Great War (which, it could be argued, previous incarnations created the massive coalitions that now dominate nullsec) is deemed to be something that would take too long, and be too destructive, and the only alternative is to fabricate fake fights for the sake of good fights (which are in truth only good because of the RISK and the surprise inherent in their emergent creation) while eliminating all potential vectors of risk...then you are risk-averse, and are just as terrible as the pubbies you love to hate. I'm sure your going to say something about how you earned the right to be top dog (which you did, because those who fought against BoB TOOK RISKS), and if someone else wants your space then they should come and take it; but that's like America, Russia and China telling Somalia to come at 'em. There is no potential threat to the blue doughnut, and there will never be a potential threat as long as all three coalitions are too damn scared to actually RISK something against each other.

If the only solution to the stagnation of Nullsec is to create a completely risk-averse PVP Arena, which somehow proves to CCP that null is borked (which, in and of itself is absurd, considering that is exactly what nullbears complain hisec is turning into); then your doing it wrong. If a Great War would be so costly, and take so long, that people who have played this awesome game for the past ten years would quit...you have your priorities backwards.

Yes, y'all fought your way to the top, and did such an excellent job of destroying any potential threat to your existence. Now, the very thought of having to risk said position as top dog would cause ten year vets to quit...that is the very definition of risk averse. I mean, those theoretical bittervets would quit because of the amount of risk inherent in a three-way Great War? Even discounting the idea of risk, YOU SPENT TEN YEARS PLAYING THIS GAME, AND A WAR THAT MAY LAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR IS TOO LONG? Are you serious?

And you claim us pubbies are risk-averse idiots who want all the things now, in perfect safety. Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#113 - 2013-03-16 23:31:13 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
and why is the sov grind a problem?

i shall answer this for you.

everyone is blue to each other.
No.
So why is sov grind a problem? You never really answered that question.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2013-03-16 23:39:33 UTC
Rhavin Kha'siere wrote:
Nullbears love to rant about how hisec is all risk-averse. While that may be true, that doesn't mean those selfsame nullbears aren't risk averse either. Case in point, this idea of Cloud Ring (which is really just a player organized version of a PVP Arena, complete with rules and judges). If a Great War (which, it could be argued, previous incarnations created the massive coalitions that now dominate nullsec) is deemed to be something that would take too long, and be too destructive, and the only alternative is to fabricate fake fights for the sake of good fights (which are in truth only good because of the RISK and the surprise inherent in their emergent creation) while eliminating all potential vectors of risk...then you are risk-averse, and are just as terrible as the pubbies you love to hate. I'm sure your going to say something about how you earned the right to be top dog (which you did, because those who fought against BoB TOOK RISKS), and if someone else wants your space then they should come and take it; but that's like America, Russia and China telling Somalia to come at 'em. There is no potential threat to the blue doughnut, and there will never be a potential threat as long as all three coalitions are too damn scared to actually RISK something against each other.

If the only solution to the stagnation of Nullsec is to create a completely risk-averse PVP Arena, which somehow proves to CCP that null is borked (which, in and of itself is absurd, considering that is exactly what nullbears complain hisec is turning into); then your doing it wrong. If a Great War would be so costly, and take so long, that people who have played this awesome game for the past ten years would quit...you have your priorities backwards.

Yes, y'all fought your way to the top, and did such an excellent job of destroying any potential threat to your existence. Now, the very thought of having to risk said position as top dog would cause ten year vets to quit...that is the very definition of risk averse. I mean, those theoretical bittervets would quit because of the amount of risk inherent in a three-way Great War? Even discounting the idea of risk, YOU SPENT TEN YEARS PLAYING THIS GAME, AND A WAR THAT MAY LAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR IS TOO LONG? Are you serious?

And you claim us pubbies are risk-averse idiots who want all the things now, in perfect safety. Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.



Not only do we have no need for even more space but we don't have the manpower to secure it if we do capture it.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Sandbaggers United
#115 - 2013-03-17 02:04:15 UTC
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
The whole idea of the wargames was a big **** you to CCP so they would stand up and notice how absolutely godawful the sov grind is and how it burns out entire alliances



if everything was soo simple then eve would be as pointless as world of warcraft.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#116 - 2013-03-17 02:49:32 UTC
destiny2 wrote:
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
The whole idea of the wargames was a big **** you to CCP so they would stand up and notice how absolutely godawful the sov grind is and how it burns out entire alliances



if everything was soo simple then eve would be as pointless as world of warcraft.


Nothing pointless about my Undead Half werewolf death knight.

Now with 100% less Troll.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#117 - 2013-03-17 05:25:11 UTC
Always with you it's gotta be Thunderdome(TM).Thunderdome this, and Tunderdome that... Blah, blah, blah.

Quit using a fairly entertaining movie as your archetype -Tina deserves more respect.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Apocryphal Noise
The Harpooner's Rest
#118 - 2013-03-17 05:33:06 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Having actually read the linked article it looks to me like Shadoo is trying to recreate his own version of CCP's own FW system over in Cloud Ring.

So... what's the problem again? Oh yeah, it keeps the Blue Doughnut interested enough to keep playing without starting a war big enough to inflict any actual harm to the Blue Doughnut. In other words, it avoids the two outcomes that can bring down the Blue Doughnut, namely bittervets unsubscribing from boredom and the possibility of the Blue Doughnut becoming a Red Doughnut.


Solar burns in the east and the slow boiling hatred of northern coalition dot for goons turns their gaze northward and Gorga would be all too happy to oblige them. Delve wasn't so long ago. TEST is narrowly talked off the ledge by a contrite Shadoo but the HBC grows restless and all it takes is one diplomatic incident to start the firestorm. However I'm glad you showed us your intimate knowledge of the nullsec politik and you're not just parroting what other ill-informed forum-goers have been saying for months with this talk of blue donuts.
Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2013-03-17 06:22:58 UTC
I heard about Thunderdome and immediately thought of Money Fight!

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#120 - 2013-03-17 07:21:12 UTC
Rhavin Kha'siere wrote:

Nullbears love to rant about how hisec is all risk-averse.
(snip)
And you claim us pubbies are risk-averse idiots who want all the things now, in perfect safety. Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

^^
Damn I wish I had written you posts first & last sentences above in my OP. +1
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'