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Sanctioned Cheating / Multiboxing / Boosting

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Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#41 - 2013-03-14 19:54:56 UTC
If multiboxing is pay to win, why don't you just go play by yourself then?
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#42 - 2013-03-14 20:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: RoCkEt X
As you might expect, i've been monitoring this thread for some time, heres my perspective on various issues raised here specifically in regard to the use of TRUE MULTIBOXING (not simply the use of multiple clients at the same time) and the use of ISboxer:

Botting?
-Nope, when i use ISboxer i control them myself, there is no automation.
-ISboxer has the POTENTIAL to be used as a botting program, as do many other programs, and indeed hardware (logitech keyboards etc) CCP's updated statement acknowledges this. I.E. if you use ISboxer to bot, using automated keystrokes, you are breaking the EULA. In other words - be careful how you use it.
-My multiboxing clients are only used for pvp, which you couldnt ever make a bot for - so this isnt a problem for me.

Pay to win?
-Aside from the $20 annual fee, i have never paid any extra RL currency to fund my multiboxing accounts
-My 10x multibox accounts are run using plexes, just like most of you.
-ISboxer is just as accessible to you as it is to me

Cheating?
-What is the difference between someone jumping you with 10 ships, or me and 9 friends jumping you?... nothing, except you're pissed that a single pilot can bring 10 ships and nuke your 5 man gang.
-Because someone has managed to make enough isk to run multibox accounts, this is somehow unfair on other people? i think not.

Unfair advantage (in relation to supercap kills recently)?
-Recently, it's been very public that i've utilised ISboxer to engage supercapitals using neutraliser fit tempests, saying that without them, the kill would have not been possible - this is incorrect, 3 of us have been 'traditionally' (i.e. no ISboxer) killing supercapitals using 4-5 accounts each in the past.
-The ragnarok that died - the pests made no difference, as he logged off without any hardeners turned on.
-Ergo, the kills still easily possible, it just takes a few minutes longer.
-The increase in kills on my part is because of the recent change in Aggro/Logoff mechanics - NOT ISboxer, even we, whom have benefited massively from these changes, agree that they are horribly broken.


In conclusion:
-Your ability to use ISboxer effectively in eve depends on how much ISK you have, NOT RL CASH.
-ISboxer itself does not violate the EULA, your anger at individuals like me is misplaced. Botters are botters, ISboxer or not, go be mad at them.

I welcome your opinions and questions, i'll keep an eye here - if not, hit me up ingame.

-Rock.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#43 - 2013-03-14 22:07:30 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:

It's too idealistic to hope people will play a game as it's intended.


The thing is, anyone you ask will have their own definition of how one should play EVE.

Which, ironically, is a most basic tenant for a sandbox game such as EVE.

All too often, posters here get so caught up in some highly-abstracted elegatarian notion that they fail to ground themselves in the one basic fact about EVE - that it's supposed to be open-ended gameplay. Like I said, what "open-ended" means can and will differ one from one player to the next, but I assure you its not limited to just "one day I'll mine then the next day I'll PVP."

As for multiboxing, claiming that people having multiple accounts and interacting with them through whatever means is some form of cheating... this is laughable. Many people have their various means to pay for additional accounts, either because they're well-off in real life and can pay real money to maintain their subscriptions, or they are industrious enough in-game and can instead maintain their subs with PLEX (and PLEX, as we all know, comes from others who are well-off enough in real life to buy those and put them on the EVE market.)

So we have two avenues - those who can pay will RL monies, and those who have time to play EVE to earn ISK to buy PLEX from those who have RL money.Time vs. money... the age-old tradeoff not just in this game but elsewhere throughout everyone's life. It's no-one's place to pass judgement on which avenue another takes. If you cannot afford multiple accounts through either means because you're short on both time and money, then that's just something you'll have to settle with your own self.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#44 - 2013-03-15 00:08:52 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Claire Raynor wrote:


This whole thread has me a bit weirded out. What's the difference between me using another of my accounts to scout out a gate - or getting someone else to do it? And if it's because I want to break a game mechanic - then what's the scout for in the first place? And if it's because I don't like people then why did I join an Alliance?


Scouting alts are just practical because having another player doing it outside of a fleet scenario would be incredibly boring. Well, most of the time.


i disagree, scouting is fun, i do lot of scouting and intel gathering. Shooting is just one part of EVE but there is not shooting without finding targets.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
The Chicken Coop
#45 - 2013-03-15 00:35:24 UTC
RoCkEt X wrote:


I welcome your opinions and questions, i'll keep an eye here - if not, hit me up ingame.

-Rock.


Go for it -- whatever floats your boat, man. I'd take any one QCAT over your setup, but that's just how I roll.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-03-15 05:32:45 UTC
Takseen wrote:
I don't know why people are so reluctant to admit Eve is pay to win. You can boost literally every aspect of your stats using real money.


You can do it with ISK aswell, meaning anyone can gain that same advantage using in game means.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-03-16 09:16:57 UTC
EVE is 100% pay2win.

in fact, it only costs 14.95 a month and i can compete with players who are 8 years older than me.

if i didnt pay that 14.95, i dont think i could compete near as well, heck, i wouldnt even be able to beat that pesky login screen.
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#48 - 2013-03-16 11:07:46 UTC
i dont get all the whining like ccp will stop people having multiple accounts. ccp activly encourage the use of alts hence there power of 2 drives every year

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#49 - 2013-03-17 11:09:04 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
EVE is 100% pay2win.

in fact, it only costs 14.95 a month and i can compete with players who are 8 years older than me.

if i didnt pay that 14.95, i dont think i could compete near as well, heck, i wouldnt even be able to beat that pesky login screen.


I've been struggling with that screen for years now!

And - you need IRL cash to beat/buy the final boss. Microsoft Excel.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#50 - 2013-03-17 11:11:16 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Claire Raynor wrote:


This whole thread has me a bit weirded out. What's the difference between me using another of my accounts to scout out a gate - or getting someone else to do it? And if it's because I want to break a game mechanic - then what's the scout for in the first place? And if it's because I don't like people then why did I join an Alliance?


Scouting alts are just practical because having another player doing it outside of a fleet scenario would be incredibly boring. Well, most of the time.


i disagree, scouting is fun, i do lot of scouting and intel gathering. Shooting is just one part of EVE but there is not shooting without finding targets.


Scouting is ace fun. I've seen fights on Lo-Sec entry gates that I could never hope to have been involved in myself, TBH - Exploration feels a lot like scouting. I love it. Sneaking is fun.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#51 - 2013-03-19 03:14:42 UTC
Takseen wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
how is ogb a pay to win feature. pay to win is wen someone buys something from a game store like golden ammo or a harder ship which can be repeated everytime youve used it up or died. you cant just buy boosters from ccp someone trained that toon and spent alot of time doing so yes they can be bought from bazarr but so can any toon, it cant be made a rule no selling boosting toons. As for the stopping ogb they said they would look into it but the code for them just to have an area of effect or being system wide is a little too complicated for them atm....
multiboxing is fine if someone can run more than one account good luck to them tbh, again this is something that isnt just bought but trained toons for and only certain people can do it.... so no pay to win here either


I don't know why people are so reluctant to admit Eve is pay to win. You can boost literally every aspect of your stats using real money. What generally makes it feel acceptable is that there's more risk attached to wearing a Snake set or flying a pirate frigate or using faction modules or having a 50mSP clone. Ogbs do seem to break that rule a bit if they're as hard to scan down as some have indicated.


If you want to share an opinion you know is based on incorrect assessments kindly do so with your main.

EVE is not p2w. For it to be that you will need to be able to pay IRL cash for something you can get for only IRL cash, and that alters your performance. This is not the case. Aurum only pays for cosmetic assets and ISK is fully earnable in-game and pays for everything else.

Using snake-implants? Not a problem, if you can pay for it. Just because some can and some can't don't mean those who do are paying to win - it simply means they have more/better assets in-game, and can STILL be killed by superior tactics and/or means by other players.

Faction gear - ISK and/or LP. 50million skillpoint character? You have to earn that or buy one for ISK if your lazy enough or don't have the time to train it to that state, and that toon can STILL be killed by others. Playing long enough to have any number of SP is not a crime - it's an achievement for playing a long time.

Off-Grid Boosters are not cheating either, so much as I'd live to think they are - you are not breaking any game-rules, though you are utilizing a mechanic that is completely idiotic, and I do hope we get to the point where any boosters have to be on the field, on grid, for the boost to take affect. You want to run your booster? By all means, but prepare to risk it in the combat you are going into, the idea that a frigate 1v1 is almost guaranteed in one guy's favor because he has OGB support is moronic in the extreme.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#52 - 2013-03-19 08:01:04 UTC
ok ...another OGB tearfall ....I will repeat to OP. OGB is helping to fight a blob. blob is bad. multibox is ok. so dont touch the OGB if you dont like the blob. once you will force boosters ongrid, only
blobs can have them and then they will become invincible. OGB allows kiting and range fights to pickup targets from blob or to
harrash blobs to destruction. OGB is creating legendary fights outnumbered. hammer it and blob will rule the eve.
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-19 10:22:12 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
ok ...another OGB tearfall ....I will repeat to OP. OGB is helping to fight a blob. blob is bad. multibox is ok. so dont touch the OGB if you dont like the blob. once you will force boosters ongrid, only
blobs can have them and then they will become invincible. OGB allows kiting and range fights to pickup targets from blob or to
harrash blobs to destruction. OGB is creating legendary fights outnumbered. hammer it and blob will rule the eve.


i thought it already does rule eve ? i mean its not like those "blobs" dont have OGB´s right now...
the blob and fleet mechanics - cyno stuff especially - show the same basic concept even board games like axis & allies show.
numbers beat great tactics and superior tactics and strategy all the time.

anyways back to the OGB and Pay2win.

it is true that more toons / clients run at the same time do provide an advantage. it is also true that it might feel like pay2win when th you just cant afford the second account and are not able to finance it through plex ....yet.

still, i know dozens of people that have more than one account (some upwards of five) and dont pay for a single one of them anymore.

jealous ? i know i am. but i dont whine about it.
i have three accounts and happily pay for all of them. i consider them not to be a way to "beat the system" but to do what i enjoy in a more enjoyable way.

i , like others , would never try to multibox in a pvp situation. unless its a blob fight then its easy and takes no skill at all as the only thing you do is activate modules / press F1 sometimes.

i do respect those players that can dual- or even triplebox in pvp , although i have yet to see someone who does not suffer in effectiveness. still, three ships at 60-70% beat the crap out of one ship at 100%. is that cheating ? i dont think so.

the question i have to ask and i think that might be one of the points suggested in this thread somewhere down the line: how come that eve is the only MMO that i know of that openly promote having multiple accounts just to be able to compete or play better.
and i dont mean twinks. I mean real alts on real different accounts to be able to be online at the same time.

of course the subscription numbers are on an alltime high right now. and rightfully so as eve is a great game. but, how come ccp never tells anyone how many real separate players / customers they actually have.

eve is almost a perfect niche and caters to that niche almost perfectly. and that niche favors dualbox, multi accounts. the rest (be it ongrid or offgrid, afk cloakies or cyno meachnaics, which suck) ist just minor details.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#54 - 2013-03-19 12:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Raynor
[EDIT - For those using ISBoxer - Please note this is potentially a grey area now]

There has been some discussion on this thread - see my previous posts, again, on this thread - about Multi-Boxing / Multi-Clients. Like I said - I run 4 accounts but have to interact with each client independantly by moving the mouse to each window. Some people on this thread have made a distinction between that and something called Multi-Boxing which they have alluded to being a system where instructions are sent to multiple clients simultaneously.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2760893#post2760893

The above linked post alludes that this may be against the EULA. Some people have said that ISBoxer should be banned. It appears it may well be now.

Just FYI - because from what I can gather this has changed recently.

[EDIT - See Mag's post below]
Mag's
Azn Empire
#55 - 2013-03-19 17:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Claire Raynor wrote:
Dear all,

There has been some discussion on here - see my previous posts - about Multi-Boxing / Multi-Clients. Like I said - I run 4 accounts but have to interact with each client independantly by moving the mouse to each window. Some people on this thread have made a distinction between that and something called Multi-Boxing which they have alluded to being a system where instructions are sent to multiple clients simultaneously.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2760893#post2760893

Confirms that this may be against the EULA. Some people have said that ISBoxer should be banned. It appears it may well be now.

Just FYI - because from what I can gather this has changed recently.
With all due respect, you should not take the word of another player. As and until CCP say otherwise, it's still allowed.

Edit: They have stated on the forum, they are discussing this. But for now their stance hasn't changed. In case some see irony in my post.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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