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Ganking of mining barges has picked up again in high sec.

Author
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#61 - 2013-03-15 19:24:13 UTC
Kajin Kanjus wrote:

That's wholesale ganking for nothing except statistics boosting and that shouldn't be happening in highsec.

There needs to be a balance between those that like to destroy and those that like to create, or else one group will leave.

The last time this kind of behavor was happening, I cancelled the subscriptions on my two accounts for a year and half. And this time I haven't paid for 6 months in advance. I learned my lesson.


Can i have your stuff?

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#62 - 2013-03-15 19:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:



I think it funny that kin here doesn't understand the value of teamwork and a good fit, hey guess what, before kill rights were a joke and only the person that was attacked could get the right, now they have it set up so that if you attack someone EVERYONE can shoot you in the face and kill you if they so deem funny enough. But hey I guess you didn't know that.


They are still a joke as far as suicide ganking is concerned. If you get 20% of a dessie you are getting squat. So, you kill (or someone else) kills the ganker flying around in their Thrasher and you get 20% of the value of the Thrasher?? You lose a 100-200 million ISK ship for a 200,000 ISK bounty? Now THAT'S a winning strategy there...

These guys aren't running around in high sec in their lokis!

Remember not to confuse bounties with charging a fee to invoke a kill right you have set to public.

If you place a 20mil ISK fee to activate your kill right on someone, only a fool would pay you the money only to pop a Catalyst. But if the person with the kill right ever gets in something bigger suddenly paying the money may seem like a good idea to people... and the person with the kill right on his head ends up losing something more significant.

Bounties are a more long term harrassment mechanism which has it's uses as well, it just doesn't put money back in the miner/victims pocket like a kill right payment does.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#63 - 2013-03-15 19:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Well, life is full of trade offs...you get enhanced safety but a lower return...

Of course, you could properly tank your hulk, stay aligned and remain in hi sec, but apparently that is too much work (not aiming this at your Dave Stark, but he OP).


I'm sorry, but I find it amusing that people think you'll be able to get away in a Hulk by having it aligned. If someone shows up in your belt looking to gank and you are in a Hulk, you are NOT getting away. Not if the ganker(s) are worth their salt.

You can do it with a Procurer or Skiff, but not in a Hulk. Not unless you are already under way (moving) and that makes mining a lot more difficult (i.e. silly).

Not at all actually.

If you aren't moving, you aren't aligned. Facing your destination doesn't get you into warp any quicker from a standing start than facing the opposite way.

The better strip miners have longer ranges. Now think about why that is in terms of enabling mining while aligned.

With this in mind, when aligned move at 75% max speed to maximize your time in range of the roid you are mining... you will get into warp just as quickly as you would at max speed while staying "on station" longer before you have to turn around and align to a celestial in the opposite direction.

Edit: That being said the extra steps necessary to mine relatively safely in a Hulk aim the ship towards being a more practical ship for null sec mining ops, with a proper fleet and the ability to secure the system against intruders... which explains why they are used there extensively and still remain a heavily used mining vessel.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Kajin Kanjus
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-03-15 19:30:42 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:



I think it funny that kin here doesn't understand the value of teamwork and a good fit, hey guess what, before kill rights were a joke and only the person that was attacked could get the right, now they have it set up so that if you attack someone EVERYONE can shoot you in the face and kill you if they so deem funny enough. But hey I guess you didn't know that.


They are still a joke as far as suicide ganking is concerned. If you get 20% of a dessie you are getting squat. So, you kill (or someone else) kills the ganker flying around in their Thrasher and you get 20% of the value of the Thrasher?? You lose a 100-200 million ISK ship for a 200,000 ISK bounty? Now THAT'S a winning strategy there...

These guys aren't running around in high sec in their lokis!

Remember not to confuse bounties with charging a fee to invoke a kill right you have set to public.

If you place a 20mil ISK fee to activate your kill right on someone, only a fool would pay the money only to pop a Catalyst. But if the person with the kill right ever gets in something bigger suddenly paying the money may seem like a good idea to people... and the person with the kill right on his head ends up losing something more significant.

Bounties are a more long term harrassment mechanism which has it's uses as well, it just doesn't put money back in the miner/victims pocket like a kill right payment does.


Agreed. The problem I see with this is that most of the guys aren't stupid enough to be roaming around in an expensive ship once they have kill rights on them. If they do, they'll stick with 3 or 4 of their friends on lowsec (as someone has already pointed out) so there's almost no chance of collecting. Like I said earlier, the system is an improvement, but has some pretty big holes in it.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-03-15 19:31:50 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
One final piece of advice to the OP:

Remember that you don't have to be able to tank everything that your opponents could bring. That's a fools errand. You just need to be better tanked than the other guys in the belt.

EVE is a PVP game, even when you are mining. You are directly competing with the other guys in the belt. When a couple Catalysts warp into a belt and look for a target, they will only choose you when you are the weakest of the pack. Don't be the weakest.


This is absolutely true.

If you're mining 3 Jumps from Jita gankers may be able to scrounge up enough Cats to gank a well fit Skiff, but it's pretty unlikely that they're going to fly all the way down to Khanid space just to gank a well fit skiff (barring personal reasons). The gankers are going to go for the low hanging fruit, the harder they have to work to gank you the less likely they're going to go out of their way to do it. There's plenty of people who have shown they're willing to be easy targets, so the bar really isn't that high.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#66 - 2013-03-15 19:35:54 UTC
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:



I think it funny that kin here doesn't understand the value of teamwork and a good fit, hey guess what, before kill rights were a joke and only the person that was attacked could get the right, now they have it set up so that if you attack someone EVERYONE can shoot you in the face and kill you if they so deem funny enough. But hey I guess you didn't know that.


They are still a joke as far as suicide ganking is concerned. If you get 20% of a dessie you are getting squat. So, you kill (or someone else) kills the ganker flying around in their Thrasher and you get 20% of the value of the Thrasher?? You lose a 100-200 million ISK ship for a 200,000 ISK bounty? Now THAT'S a winning strategy there...

These guys aren't running around in high sec in their lokis!

Remember not to confuse bounties with charging a fee to invoke a kill right you have set to public.

If you place a 20mil ISK fee to activate your kill right on someone, only a fool would pay the money only to pop a Catalyst. But if the person with the kill right ever gets in something bigger suddenly paying the money may seem like a good idea to people... and the person with the kill right on his head ends up losing something more significant.

Bounties are a more long term harrassment mechanism which has it's uses as well, it just doesn't put money back in the miner/victims pocket like a kill right payment does.


Agreed. The problem I see with this is that most of the guys aren't stupid enough to be roaming around in an expensive ship once they have kill rights on them. If they do, they'll stick with 3 or 4 of their friends on lowsec (as someone has already pointed out) so there's almost no chance of collecting. Like I said earlier, the system is an improvement, but has some pretty big holes in it.


Never underestimate the ability of someone in this game to do something stupid. That applies to professional suicide gankers as well. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2013-03-15 19:48:57 UTC
/facepalm.

FIT A TANK, STUPID!

Living in highsec is not a valid excuse for neglecting to fit a tank as well as offensive capabilities.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#68 - 2013-03-15 19:52:11 UTC
I worked this up to have fun with.

It should bring delight to those bold enough to use it.

It simply tells people: "Guests? I insist you stay and visit for a bit..."

A group together could be a LOT of fun.

Effective HP for myself: 74,963
Cap Stable

[Skiff, Tackle Skiff 1]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Warp Disruptor I
Stasis Webifier I

Ice Harvester II

Medium Core Defense Charge Economizer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Vespa II x5
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#69 - 2013-03-15 20:11:14 UTC
Procurers Exist.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-03-15 20:15:00 UTC
High sec people should not be completely safe.

If you as a miner think your entitled to have the same ore yields as null security space but want total security then you are a horrible person and I hate you and everything you stand for.

Your gameplay ruins other peoples gameplay as it reduces the value of the work people who actually do like to take risks engage in.


Go get a procurer and stop whining.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#71 - 2013-03-15 20:22:44 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Procurers Exist.

And fun they are too!

Effective HP for myself: 63,872
Cap Stable

[Procurer, Cool Ice 2]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor I
Stasis Webifier I

Ice Harvester II

Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hornet II x5
Kajin Kanjus
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-03-15 20:25:31 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Well, life is full of trade offs...you get enhanced safety but a lower return...

Of course, you could properly tank your hulk, stay aligned and remain in hi sec, but apparently that is too much work (not aiming this at your Dave Stark, but he OP).


I'm sorry, but I find it amusing that people think you'll be able to get away in a Hulk by having it aligned. If someone shows up in your belt looking to gank and you are in a Hulk, you are NOT getting away. Not if the ganker(s) are worth their salt.

You can do it with a Procurer or Skiff, but not in a Hulk. Not unless you are already under way (moving) and that makes mining a lot more difficult (i.e. silly).

Not at all actually.

If you aren't moving, you aren't aligned. Facing your destination doesn't get you into warp any quicker from a standing start than facing the opposite way.

The better strip miners have longer ranges. Now think about why that is in terms of enabling mining while aligned.

With this in mind, when aligned move at 75% max speed to maximize your time in range of the roid you are mining... you will get into warp just as quickly as you would at max speed while staying "on station" longer before you have to turn around and align to a celestial in the opposite direction.

Edit: That being said the extra steps necessary to mine relatively safely in a Hulk aim the ship towards being a more practical ship for null sec mining ops, with a proper fleet and the ability to secure the system against intruders... which explains why they are used there extensively and still remain a heavily used mining vessel.



I think you are bit off on this. In order to go into warp, two conditions have to be met. The first is that you must be within a certain number of degrees on either side of your warp destination (13 degrees? I can't remember for sure now). You cannot instantly warp to a stargate perpendicular to you even if you are at max speed. You must first "align" to the gate.

The second is 75% of your max speed. Don't confuse the movement of "Align To" with being aligned with something. Being aligned means you are pointing in the direction you want to go regardless of what speed you are going. The "Align To" function merely keeps you moving after pointing you in the right direction.

This means emphatically that it matters the direction your ship is pointing, even if standing still. It takes longer to go to warp if you are pointing in the wrong direction. This is especially true for lumbering ships like freighters, battleships, Orcas, and a little less so for Hulks. Ships that can spin on a dime can go to warp much faster regardless of what direction they are pointing.

I've done what you're talking about doing with regard to what I'd call moving mining and it's a royal pain in the ass. It also doesn't work well in many circumstances because your celestials often don't line up to the plane of the asteroid belt. In short, you have to move away from the belt in order to stay aligned. Also, there are often no celestials in the opposite direction. That makes this method very difficult in many circumstances (although not impossible and not in all cirumstances).


Mag's
Azn Empire
#73 - 2013-03-15 20:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Not at all actually.

If you aren't moving, you aren't aligned. Facing your destination doesn't get you into warp any quicker from a standing start than facing the opposite way.

The better strip miners have longer ranges. Now think about why that is in terms of enabling mining while aligned.

With this in mind, when aligned move at 75% max speed to maximize your time in range of the roid you are mining... you will get into warp just as quickly as you would at max speed while staying "on station" longer before you have to turn around and align to a celestial in the opposite direction.

Edit: That being said the extra steps necessary to mine relatively safely in a Hulk aim the ship towards being a more practical ship for null sec mining ops, with a proper fleet and the ability to secure the system against intruders... which explains why they are used there extensively and still remain a heavily used mining vessel.



I think you are bit off on this. In order to go into warp, two conditions have to be met. The first is that you must be within a certain number of degrees on either side of your warp destination (13 degrees? I can't remember for sure now). You cannot instantly warp to a stargate perpendicular to you even if you are at max speed. You must first "align" to the gate.

The second is 75% of your max speed. Don't confuse the movement of "Align To" with being aligned with something. Being aligned means you are pointing in the direction you want to go regardless of what speed you are going. The "Align To" function merely keeps you moving after pointing you in the right direction.

This means emphatically that it matters the direction your ship is pointing, even if standing still. It takes longer to go to warp if you are pointing in the wrong direction. This is especially true for lumbering ships like freighters, battleships, Orcas, and a little less so for Hulks. Ships that can spin on a dime can go to warp much faster regardless of what direction they are pointing.

I've done what you're talking about doing with regard to what I'd call moving mining and it's a royal pain in the ass. It also doesn't work well in many circumstances because your celestials often don't line up to the plane of the asteroid belt. In short, you have to move away from the belt in order to stay aligned. Also, there are often no celestials in the opposite direction. That makes this method very difficult in many circumstances (although not impossible and not in all cirumstances).


Ranger is correct. If you are at a dead stop, it's completely irrelevant which direction your ship is pointing.
The server sees your ship as a vector, it's visual direction is given by your client only. (hence the reason some had issues with T3 ships moving and warping backwards, client issue)
Once you start moving, the server takes note of the direction and will warp that way once you reach 75% of ship speed.

Being passively aligned, (dead stop) will not get you into warp to that direction any quicker, than if you faced the other way.

Being actively aligned, you only need to be at 75% speed and pointing to where you want to warp.

This means the only way to get out of dodge quickly, is to be actively aligned.

Linkage.
Quote:
There is no benefit to the ship and how long it takes to get into warp; in EVE, ships are modelled as vectors, and the actual orientation of the engines has no relevance to the direction in which thrust is applied. Therefore the time to warp when passive aligned is the same as if the ship were pointing in the opposite direction but stationary.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#74 - 2013-03-15 20:46:30 UTC
When i used to mine i never forgot to fit a tank, high sec doesn't mean candy land

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-03-15 21:26:34 UTC
I can support #3, #4, and #6 of the OPs suggestions.

My suggestion would be requiring higher sec status than currently to not be considered a suspect that everyone can shoot at.
Although this has no effect for -10 gank alts

Perhaps some "docking permission denied" messages are in order. Then you could in theory, try to counter gank an orca that would be supplying the ships for these -10 gank alts.
Maybe some way to pass on a suspect flag to an orca supplying ships that gank?


but meh... as ususal, all it takes if for you to pay attention, watch local, and warp out at the right time, or fly a procuror and tank it.
Kajin Kanjus
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-03-15 21:33:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Not at all actually.

If you aren't moving, you aren't aligned. Facing your destination doesn't get you into warp any quicker from a standing start than facing the opposite way.

The better strip miners have longer ranges. Now think about why that is in terms of enabling mining while aligned.

With this in mind, when aligned move at 75% max speed to maximize your time in range of the roid you are mining... you will get into warp just as quickly as you would at max speed while staying "on station" longer before you have to turn around and align to a celestial in the opposite direction.

Edit: That being said the extra steps necessary to mine relatively safely in a Hulk aim the ship towards being a more practical ship for null sec mining ops, with a proper fleet and the ability to secure the system against intruders... which explains why they are used there extensively and still remain a heavily used mining vessel.



I think you are bit off on this. In order to go into warp, two conditions have to be met. The first is that you must be within a certain number of degrees on either side of your warp destination (13 degrees? I can't remember for sure now). You cannot instantly warp to a stargate perpendicular to you even if you are at max speed. You must first "align" to the gate.

The second is 75% of your max speed. Don't confuse the movement of "Align To" with being aligned with something. Being aligned means you are pointing in the direction you want to go regardless of what speed you are going. The "Align To" function merely keeps you moving after pointing you in the right direction.

This means emphatically that it matters the direction your ship is pointing, even if standing still. It takes longer to go to warp if you are pointing in the wrong direction. This is especially true for lumbering ships like freighters, battleships, Orcas, and a little less so for Hulks. Ships that can spin on a dime can go to warp much faster regardless of what direction they are pointing.

I've done what you're talking about doing with regard to what I'd call moving mining and it's a royal pain in the ass. It also doesn't work well in many circumstances because your celestials often don't line up to the plane of the asteroid belt. In short, you have to move away from the belt in order to stay aligned. Also, there are often no celestials in the opposite direction. That makes this method very difficult in many circumstances (although not impossible and not in all cirumstances).


Ranger is correct. If you are at a dead stop, it's completely irrelevant which direction your ship is pointing.
The server sees your ship as a vector, it's visual direction is given by your client only. (hence the reason some had issues with T3 ships moving and warping backwards, client issue)
Once you start moving, the server takes note of the direction and will warp that way once you reach 75% of ship speed.

Being passively aligned, (dead stop) will not get you into warp to that direction any quicker, than if you faced the other way.

Being actively aligned, you only need to be at 75% speed and pointing to where you want to warp.

This means the only way to get out of dodge quickly, is to be actively aligned.

Linkage.
Quote:
There is no benefit to the ship and how long it takes to get into warp; in EVE, ships are modelled as vectors, and the actual orientation of the engines has no relevance to the direction in which thrust is applied. Therefore the time to warp when passive aligned is the same as if the ship were pointing in the opposite direction but stationary.


I this all off topic from the original, but it appears you guys were correct. I ran three tests with my Orca:

Test #1: Aligned to startgate and stopped the ship to full stop (takes forever to get that wallowing pig down to 0.0 m/s).

Test #2: Jumped back into space from that stargate and stopped the ship without turning. Jumped back to said stargate.

Test #3. Jumped back into space from that stargate and got the ship up to max speed without turning (going opposite of stargate).

Times:

Test #1: 39 seconds
Test #2: 40 seconds (the difference could very well be to me not clicking stop watch at some time)
Test #3: 60 seconds

So, it appears you guys were right. I've always experienced crazy delays in jumping that beast, but I guess it was because I was always moving.

Thanks for learnin'! ;-)

Kajin Kanjus
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-03-15 21:39:02 UTC

So, to wrap this up, I believe there's a large disparity between what the gankers are risking and what the gankees are risking. The gankees are risking much more expensive ships and the gankers are risking very inexpensive ships (by risking I'm talking about the ship the fly after the gank is over and kill rights given out). The combo of the bounty system and the kill rights system really does not offset that disparity much. That's what really needs to be fixed, in my opinion.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#78 - 2013-03-15 21:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mag's wrote:
Kajin Kanjus wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Not at all actually.

If you aren't moving, you aren't aligned. Facing your destination doesn't get you into warp any quicker from a standing start than facing the opposite way.

The better strip miners have longer ranges. Now think about why that is in terms of enabling mining while aligned.

With this in mind, when aligned move at 75% max speed to maximize your time in range of the roid you are mining... you will get into warp just as quickly as you would at max speed while staying "on station" longer before you have to turn around and align to a celestial in the opposite direction.

Edit: That being said the extra steps necessary to mine relatively safely in a Hulk aim the ship towards being a more practical ship for null sec mining ops, with a proper fleet and the ability to secure the system against intruders... which explains why they are used there extensively and still remain a heavily used mining vessel.



I think you are bit off on this. In order to go into warp, two conditions have to be met. The first is that you must be within a certain number of degrees on either side of your warp destination (13 degrees? I can't remember for sure now). You cannot instantly warp to a stargate perpendicular to you even if you are at max speed. You must first "align" to the gate.

The second is 75% of your max speed. Don't confuse the movement of "Align To" with being aligned with something. Being aligned means you are pointing in the direction you want to go regardless of what speed you are going. The "Align To" function merely keeps you moving after pointing you in the right direction.

This means emphatically that it matters the direction your ship is pointing, even if standing still. It takes longer to go to warp if you are pointing in the wrong direction. This is especially true for lumbering ships like freighters, battleships, Orcas, and a little less so for Hulks. Ships that can spin on a dime can go to warp much faster regardless of what direction they are pointing.

I've done what you're talking about doing with regard to what I'd call moving mining and it's a royal pain in the ass. It also doesn't work well in many circumstances because your celestials often don't line up to the plane of the asteroid belt. In short, you have to move away from the belt in order to stay aligned. Also, there are often no celestials in the opposite direction. That makes this method very difficult in many circumstances (although not impossible and not in all cirumstances).


Ranger is correct. If you are at a dead stop, it's completely irrelevant which direction your ship is pointing.
The server sees your ship as a vector, it's visual direction is given by your client only. (hence the reason some had issues with T3 ships moving and warping backwards, client issue)
Once you start moving, the server takes note of the direction and will warp that way once you reach 75% of ship speed.

Being passively aligned, (dead stop) will not get you into warp to that direction any quicker, than if you faced the other way.

Being actively aligned, you only need to be at 75% speed and pointing to where you want to warp.

This means the only way to get out of dodge quickly, is to be actively aligned.

Linkage.
Quote:
There is no benefit to the ship and how long it takes to get into warp; in EVE, ships are modelled as vectors, and the actual orientation of the engines has no relevance to the direction in which thrust is applied. Therefore the time to warp when passive aligned is the same as if the ship were pointing in the opposite direction but stationary.

I think the confusion was in the terminology we were using. I was referring to passive alignment... sitting next to your asteroid and pointed at your destination point does nothing to help you get into warp more quickly as Mags pointed out.

A different matter is when you are aligned in the wrong direction. In that case yes, your ship has to decelerate and realign, which often takes far longer than going from a standing start. I believe this is what you were thinking about.

The server basically see's your ship as a bubble, and that bubble has to be moving in the right direction at least 75% of max speed.

As far as staying aligned in a belt, keep in mind that you do not have to keep to the plane of the belt. You can just as easily align to objects above and below the belt as well (it's just easier to visualize when its all on the same plane).

You are correct, some belts are positioned such that there are no celestials opposite each other. These would be the belts to avoid.

As a side note, I hope that you remembered to set appropriate standings towards those you are ganked by or see ganking others (especially if you have made public a kill right on them). It makes it much easier to pick out in local, giving you an opportunity to relocate accordingly.

Let someone else be the victim. In your occupation it is the one that knows how to avoid/survive an encounter that is the superior player, while the less skilled are picked off around you.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#79 - 2013-03-15 21:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Sorry I rehashed some of what you discovered, we cross posted.

Good work on investigating it yourself.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#80 - 2013-03-15 21:50:09 UTC
Kajin Kanjus wrote:

So, to wrap this up, I believe there's a large disparity between what the gankers are risking and what the gankees are risking. The gankees are risking much more expensive ships and the gankers are risking very inexpensive ships (by risking I'm talking about the ship the fly after the gank is over and kill rights given out). The combo of the bounty system and the kill rights system really does not offset that disparity much. That's what really needs to be fixed, in my opinion.


Fair enough, but the counter point is that the above only really is (somewhat) applicable in the case of using a Hulk in High Sec... and that is not really the environment it was designed to operate in.

Yes, you can use it (especially if you use good tactics and fit appropriately), but it's lack of defensive capability means that it operates at it's best in a Null Sec mining fleet, where it's superior yield can be leveraged most effectively and the system can be secured to ensure it's safety (as much as safety can ever be secured in EvE).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.