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Cloaking Countermeasures
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#81 - 2013-03-15 09:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Abrazzar
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Cloaking is a tactical advantage and tactical advantages kill things. Ever got stabbed in the back? Tactical advantage.

Now stop arguing semantics.


You're the one playing with semantics if you're resorting to claiming it's a tactical advantage and that they indirectly lead to kills. Cloaked ships are literally incapable of killing anything.

No U! X

Maybe now I'm on your level of argumentation.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#82 - 2013-03-15 10:10:04 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Cloaking is a tactical advantage and tactical advantages kill things. Ever got stabbed in the back? Tactical advantage.

Now stop arguing semantics.


You're the one playing with semantics if you're resorting to claiming it's a tactical advantage and that they indirectly lead to kills. Cloaked ships are literally incapable of killing anything.

No U! X

Maybe now I'm on your level of argumentation.


No, you were always far below the level of discourse in this thread. I, as well as a few others, were pointing out the hard fact that it is mechanically impossible for cloaked ships to kill things, and you fell back to "b b but they can plan things! And that might lead to kills!".
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#83 - 2013-03-15 10:26:27 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
You

No U!

No, you

Made my point.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#84 - 2013-03-15 10:34:38 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
You

No U!

No, you

Made my point.


Better just to dismiss TheGunslinger42. he rarely gets it or just wants to ignore it cause it's againts hes way of game play, even if you would make your point by making a clay model, painting it and then showing it to him.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#85 - 2013-03-15 11:06:27 UTC
Have either one of you actually managed to argue against what I, and others, have said - that a cloaked ship, afk or not, simply cannot do anything to you at all?

Or are you just going to keep dismissing this point in the hopes that it goes away?
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#86 - 2013-03-15 11:18:30 UTC
Im so going to reactivate my cloaky alts and sent them to your space soon to afk cloak. Kthnxbye
duckmonster
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-03-15 11:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: duckmonster
I do agree cloaking is a bit broken, and I say that as someone who uses cloaks a lot.

My two suggestions to fix this are as follows;-

1) If your cloaked you disapear from local. Just because I'm cloaked in system, it shouldn't cause ratters alarm or impede their gameplay. A gang of us cloaked near a gate could be quite disturbing for a miner or ratter.

2) Introduce cloaking interdictors who can use a full T2 cloak. This removes the unfair advantage cloakers have over the interdictors in their gang by allowing interdictors to warp cloaked too. Naturally this should include allowing the cloaking dictors to use BLOPS bridges since it really is unfair on dictors to have to miss out on juicy hotdrops.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#88 - 2013-03-15 12:02:44 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
I am sure that there will be people (mostly reds to me) that will be unhappy about this. Though I will be happy to start camping you in an "afk" cloaky ship too. If that helps to change your tune.

Now moving on to the goal of this topic. Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP. Mostly that there is no way in 'hell' to counter them. Unless you want to spend all of your free time for months working through the system. Blink If so, I will be sitting here and wait for you to come back and report on how easy it was.

As has been mentioned in the forums before, I believe, modules for POS were suggested. Modules that would emit a pulse causing the decloaking of ships in that system (every 5-15 min, I think it was). Personally, I think that is a great idea. Even Goonswarm might like to have those in 'certain' systems.

The modules should be not too easy to setup and run. Otherwise it would nullify the use of cloaky ships. Yet it needs to still be in the realm of reasonable. Anyway, I am sure that some of you have criticism and flaming to do. So have at it!



I fully support this idea, to finally be through with afk cloaking \o/

Yes, the module can activated once an hour by a starbase technician, no automatic use, and needs to consume 400 Jovian Fuel Blocks. Totally agree with that.

Now find someone whining about afk-cloakies willing to do THAT.
Jita Akachi
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-03-15 12:21:13 UTC
Cloacking is fine but less that afk cloacking. Afk cloacking is zero risk, zero reward : perfect balance!
We all know that there so many things that need to be look at, so non existent problem like cloacking will stay untouched for years.. Make one new thread per day will not change that, hopefully. Fly Safe, fly cloacked Big smile
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#90 - 2013-03-15 12:28:58 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Have either one of you actually managed to argue against what I, and others, have said - that a cloaked ship, afk or not, simply cannot do anything to you at all?

Or are you just going to keep dismissing this point in the hopes that it goes away?


Well after reading quite much of your posts you just keep pointing out the same over and over again. "Cloaks are not broken there is no problem". And it realy doesn't even matter how many times other people say to you and give suggestions that how it is brokes or tries to explain them selfs how they view the situation you alway say the same thing in the end or begining. "they are not broken, next".

So yes I realy would love to see some critisims and constructive feedback also from you cause if a load of people complain about something it can't be that it's balances right. If it was balanced right there would not be any complains (well there is always some) or at least not this much than this topic has.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Anthar Thebess
#91 - 2013-03-15 12:55:07 UTC
The best cloaking counter measure - if you see a neut in the local - DO NOT UNDOCK, LEAVE THE SYSTEM!
He will catch you with your pants down and kill your precious faction battleship, or bring friends to kill your pimped carrier!

To be honest - that is one of the points to use a cloak.
Second one is a real life - you can always make a safe spot and park there your cloaked ship.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#92 - 2013-03-15 13:41:25 UTC
I really must interrupt this exchange to make a point. This reply was apparently intended for TheGunslinger42.
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Well after reading quite much of your posts you just keep pointing out the same over and over again. "Cloaks are not broken there is no problem". And it realy doesn't even matter how many times other people say to you and give suggestions that how it is brokes or tries to explain them selfs how they view the situation you alway say the same thing in the end or begining. "they are not broken, next".

So yes I realy would love to see some critisims and constructive feedback also from you cause if a load of people complain about something it can't be that it's balances right. If it was balanced right there would not be any complains (well there is always some) or at least not this much than this topic has.

Cloaking IS quite broken. Local is also broken.

They are balanced, however.

Sound like a contradiction? Then you also assume balance implies functionality, which it does not.

Cloaking is broken by local reporting it, in an absolutely reliable manner. This is broken.

It is however, balanced by:

You absolutely cannot locate a cloaked vessel, unless they let you, or make a mistake. This is also broken.

Since both sides are countering each other, it is in balance.

Sadly, this leaves cloaking as a meta gaming tool. Many people enjoy this play, so to them there is no problem at all.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#93 - 2013-03-15 14:12:38 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Have either one of you actually managed to argue against what I, and others, have said - that a cloaked ship, afk or not, simply cannot do anything to you at all?

Or are you just going to keep dismissing this point in the hopes that it goes away?


Well after reading quite much of your posts you just keep pointing out the same over and over again. "Cloaks are not broken there is no problem". And it realy doesn't even matter how many times other people say to you and give suggestions that how it is brokes or tries to explain them selfs how they view the situation you alway say the same thing in the end or begining. "they are not broken, next".

So yes I realy would love to see some critisims and constructive feedback also from you cause if a load of people complain about something it can't be that it's balances right. If it was balanced right there would not be any complains (well there is always some) or at least not this much than this topic has.


Say what? If we don't think it is broken, what other feedback would we give? Why discuss solutions to something we don't think is broken? Sorry if you don't like the fact we disagree with you but it's part of life.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#94 - 2013-03-15 14:32:54 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Have either one of you actually managed to argue against what I, and others, have said - that a cloaked ship, afk or not, simply cannot do anything to you at all?

Or are you just going to keep dismissing this point in the hopes that it goes away?


Well after reading quite much of your posts you just keep pointing out the same over and over again. "Cloaks are not broken there is no problem". And it realy doesn't even matter how many times other people say to you and give suggestions that how it is brokes or tries to explain them selfs how they view the situation you alway say the same thing in the end or begining. "they are not broken, next".

So yes I realy would love to see some critisims and constructive feedback also from you cause if a load of people complain about something it can't be that it's balances right. If it was balanced right there would not be any complains (well there is always some) or at least not this much than this topic has.


We're trying to explain why we think it isn't broken - or why it's not the real issue at least, and you keep dismissing what we say. We ARE giving constructive feedback, but because it's not feedback you like you dismiss it and accuse me of not being constructive? Pff.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#95 - 2013-03-15 14:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

We're trying to explain why we think it isn't broken - or why it's not the real issue at least, and you keep dismissing what we say. We ARE giving constructive feedback, but because it's not feedback you like you dismiss it and accuse me of not being constructive? Pff.


it's a waste of time, this people are only alts and troll. A large majority of people spent pages and pages to explain and demostrate why what they say is crap but is useless: they simply switch alt and repost the same **** again in a new thread; null bears are whining since 2007:

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=507096

In many case they clearly show to have no clue about EVE and the game mechanics.

They have nothing to do and can just spend time on the forum while they're mining or ratting afk; so Is better to just ignore and troll them back.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#96 - 2013-03-15 15:18:42 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

We're trying to explain why we think it isn't broken - or why it's not the real issue at least, and you keep dismissing what we say. We ARE giving constructive feedback, but because it's not feedback you like you dismiss it and accuse me of not being constructive? Pff.


it's a waste of time, this people are only alts and troll. A large majority of people spent pages and pages to explain and demostrate why what they say is crap but is useless: they simply switch alt and repost the same **** again in a new thread; null bears are whining since 2007:

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=507096

In many case they clearly show to have no clue about EVE and the game mechanics.

They have nothing to do and can just spend time on the forum while they're mining or ratting afk; so Is better to just ignore and troll them back.

Yes, this fits the astroturf comments I saw. The cloaky complaints seem to be pretty artificial considering their repetitive nature along these lines.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2013-03-15 18:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Abrazzar wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
.....
Cloaked ships have never destroyed anything, or made any isk, or any thing really


rolf

oh please say your trying troll. If your not, please do not ever never again post anything ever again.

Humor me, what has a cloaked ship destroyed? How much Isk has a cloaked ship ever made? Other than being in local what can a cloaked ship do to affect another player?

Cloaking is a tactical advantage and tactical advantages kill things. Ever got stabbed in the back? Tactical advantage.

Now stop arguing semantics.


Load of crap. Yes, a tactical advantage can let you kill things, but not always. When a cloak is active the ship has no hostile capabilities. For a cloaked ship to have hostile capabilities, the cloak has to be deactivate. At that point the ship is now very vulnerable since ships that can fit a cov ops cloaking device are generally pretty easy to kill.

See, a cloaked ship can get into position to light a cyno for a big battle....with these bone headed counters that could be much more difficult. If you have some stupid POS mod that is sending out an anti-cloaking wave every 10 minutes the cloaked pilot may not have time to get into position to light the cyno before being decloaked and killed.

Yeah it sucks if your ratting system is being camped by some guy cloaked at a safe, but there are ways to deal with that. Go in there and rat with a few buddies and put a point on your ships. If he decloaks, point him and call in your buddies. Get on Team Speak FFS so you can call for help faster. Set a trap for the cloaky.

And denying enemies access to "resources" is an age old tactic....a valid tactic, especially in a game where the motto could very well be, "STFU and HTFU or GTFO".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#98 - 2013-03-15 19:02:31 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
cause if a load of people complain about something it can't be that it's balances right.


Because a lot of people saying something makes it true, right?
A Blinker
34 Signals
#99 - 2013-03-16 04:11:38 UTC
Makes you wonder how many "stop AFK cloaking" post they has to be before CCP listen. fix ships etc but i'll put a +1 to this (again)

granted i do have a cloaky and sit in a system or 2 and i think is a good idea to have some way of preventing them for having a 23.5 hour cloak timer. maybe 30min and then cloaking sys has to have 30 sec cool down or something

amazing to me that post i can find on this go all way back to 2007 and yet nothing been done
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2013-03-16 05:01:22 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP.

no, no most of us wouldn't agree.

There is nothing "OP" about sitting there not able to do anything. but your definition of OP is "hiding"? The tired, old, and already posted to death idea you offered up would be truly overpowered...and ruin many aspects of the game. No pos module should ever work system wide. If implemented decloaking counter measures would suddenly be more popular than abandoned ibis's. No the idea stinks ..wormholes and gatecamps are already tricky enough without destroying cloaking. There are already counters to cloaking - we don't need anything more than the removal of the cloaked from local.


I vote "never" on more counter measures.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]