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Hard time increasing DPS

Author
NightBlade Starclasher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-03-15 03:21:51 UTC
So here is what I have:

Trained Gunnery Skills:
- Controlled Bursts Lvl 2
- Gunnery Lvl 4
- Medium Projectile Turret (Training Level 4 right now)
- Motion Prediction Lvl 3
- Rapid Firing Lvl 3
- Sharpshooter Lvl 3
- Weapon Upgrades Lvl 2

Trained Drone Skills:
- Combat Drone Operation Lvl 3
- Drone Durability Lvl 2
- Drones Lvl 4
- Scout Drone Operation Lvl 3

Currently Equipped Drones/Turrets:
- 4x Hammerhead I Drones
- 2x 425mm Autocannon (Titanium Sabot M Rounds)
- 1x 650mm Prototype Siege Cannon (Titanium Sabot M Rounds)
- 1x 720mm Gallium Cannon (Titanium Sabot M Rounds)

My total DPS for turrets is 42.8 and for my drones is 53, for a total rating of 95.8 dps. I feel this is kind of low, I've spoken to people running a cruiser class vessel getting 320+ dps. Now understand that I am new to the game (1 month exactly) and don't fully understand what skills I should be training to increase this, as well as what rigs/ship mods I should be equipping. I am flying a Vexor Cruiser and it seems to be a vessel that can dish out the firepower, I just don't know how to make it available.

Could someone possible suggest others skills I should be investing time into? Or rigs they would recommend I fit to the ship (Current have 2 on this ship - Medium Ancillary Current Router I and Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I), or upgrades I should place. I really like the vessel and before I start thinking about stepping up to a Battlecruiser, I want to get my weaponry on point first. I want to fly L2 missions (which are currently available) but with my current arrangement I almost always have to warp, and in three cases I have lost my vessel. I don't think it's unreasonable to look for 200+ DPS out of this ship, and any advice is greatly appreciated. Also, I don't want to ask too much, but could someone please give me an idea of what type of turrets I should be working on? (Hybrid, Projectile, Energy, ?). As it stands my Medium Energy, Hybrid, and Projectile are all at Level 3.

P.S. I work shift work so it's hard for me to get on through the day to read responses, but I will get on at least an hour a night to check out the responses during my work cycle. Thanks in advance!
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#2 - 2013-03-15 03:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Hoo boy.

You have autocannons equipped. Stop that. Autocannons have low DPS compared to other options, and your ship doesn't have bonuses to projectiles (which is what autocannons are).

You need to start doing research. You want hybrid turrets. That's what your vexor has bonuses for. That means blasters in this case. What level is gallente cruiser? Get that to IV right away, then focus on training up to T2 drones and T2 guns.
Toxic Raioin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-03-15 03:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Toxic Raioin
Add Trajectory analysis, and surgical strike skill to your training. SK is 3% damage per level. Finish gunnery and start training for T2 weapons. Choose which weapon type you like then train the pulse/beam, auto cannon/atry, blaster/rail specialization skills for more damage.

Lasers=Armarr Ships
Projectile=Minmatards Ships
Hybrids=Gallente Ships
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#4 - 2013-03-15 04:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Here's my suggestions as someone that started out in a Vexor about 12 months ago. I still fly them a lot in PVP as they are cheap, very deadly (~730+ DPS with guns overheated, my skills and a stationary target at my optimal range) and they are widely underestimated.


High slots:
- As many 'meta 4' medium blasters as you can fit, all of the same type (Ion/Electron/Neutron). Meta level is on the stats panel, higher is better, M4 is close to tech 2 performance but doesn't require any more skills than the tech 1 base version.
- Do not overheat your guns in PVE except in emergencies. In PVP, ALWAYS overheat them except in odd situations.

Drone bay:
- Ogre 1 x3. Train into these ASAP.
- If you can't use those, Hammerhead 1 x5. These do around 15% less DPS than the three Ogres. Technically you get more DPS with 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Warrior, but then your drones move at different speeds to each other.
- Drones 5 is your friend. Gallente pilots should get this as their very first level 5 skill.
- Also carry Warrior 1 x5 and five ECM drones. The ECM drones are for escaping unexpected PVP situations.


Low slots:
- Drone Damage Amplifier 2 x2. If you can't fit tech 2, go with tech 1 but look to upgrade soon.
- Three armor tank modules (Damage Control II if you can use it, otherwise meta 2 or 3 as 4 is expensive, Medium Armor Repairer II or meta 4, and a mission appropriate armor resist module)
- For PVP, you want a big armor plate in there too, at the expense of something.


Mid slots:
Personal preference. I'd go with a web, meta 4 or tech 2 (helps Ogres hit frigates), an afterburner and a warp scrambler (for if you get attacked but do not want to flee). If you live in highsec the scram is not needed unless under wardec. The Omnidirectional Tracking Link module might sound good, but it is really only good with sentry drones, and tech 1 sentries are terrible.
Keep your last slot free for mission-specific counters to EWAR you expect to face (e.g. ECCM if the mission has jamming rats, a SeBo if it has tracking disruption).


Critical skills:
Drone Interfacing 3 (prereq: Drones 5). Get 4 in time. 5 can wait six months.
Gunnery skills to 3 (inc medium hybrids)
Ability to fit a tech 2 armor tank (use meta 4 until then)
Gallente Cruiser 3 (4 in time. 5 can wait a LONG time)
Thermodynamics 1 (which has a fair number of prereqs, all things you will want anyway). Lets you 'overheat' modules to get 10-30% more out of them for a short time. Very good in an emergency (including every PVP situation).



Edit: My fit, solo PVP oriented:
High: Full rack of Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M ammo
Mids: 10mn Afterburner II, 2x meta 4 multispectral ECM (Hypnos), 1x Warp Scrambler II (might be meta 4 instead, cannot remember). The ECM is a controversial choice.
Lows: 1x 400mm Steel Armor Plate II (might be meta 4 800mm, not home to check), 1x Damage Control Unit II, 1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II, 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Rigs (controversial choice): One of each hybrid rig (+10% attack speed, +10% damage, cannot remember names).
Drones: 3x Ogre 2, 5x Warrior 2, 5x ECM

The ECM modules and drones let me disengage from a fight that I thought was 1v1 but that suddenly becomes 3v1 and sometimes just get critical jams that win you a fight. The hybrid rigs help you kill someone fast, before help arrives. Again this is a PVP fit, hence the tank that's focused on keeping me alive long enough to kill someone but with no way to repair damage between fights.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Orlacc
#5 - 2013-03-15 04:54:23 UTC
Surgical Strike helps a lot.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#6 - 2013-03-15 06:42:53 UTC
A lot of tips have already been mentioned, but here's a couple more:

1) NEVER mix gun sizes, it's terrible beyond words.

2) Nothing wrong with using projectiles on non-bonused ships as they use no cap, but mostly the faction variant will be better due to ship bonuses.

3)
Hybrids: Gallente / Caldari
Projectiles: Minmatar
Lasers: Amarr
Missiles: Caldari / Minmatar
Drones: Gallente / Amarr (primarily, every ship with a drone bay should make use of it. Amarr / Gallente is more focused on drone damage on some ships though.)

4) There's no shame in asking for help on the forums fitting ships, but there's always trolls. Remember to use the search function as well! (Note: Some ships may have been rebalanced since some of the older fittings you find)

5) Better skills yield a lot more dps, but don't forget to get the skills for other things relelvant up as well. Tech 2 guns enables you to use specialized ammo for close and long range with each weapon. Some of these ammo types are really good, others are very situational in their use.

6) The dps you see from others is often calculated with all skills at 5 for easy comparison purposes, and is calculated through a fitting program such as pyfa or EFT where you can try out fitting ships out of the game. In game numbers for tank / dps is calculated differently from those programs, so don't be surprised if they're not the same.

7) Use the ships bonuses to your advantage, and don't just get the minimum skills for them in the long run (lots of skills to train as you start out, but try not to skill into everything at once as you will be the master of none).

For example your Vexor has:
Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield

So with Gallente Cruiser skill at 5, you would get a whopping 25% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage, and 50% bonus to drone hitpoints, damamge and mining yield.

Usually getting the skill to 4 is plenty for some time, as getting the last level takes very long.

Feel free to send me a mail if you're curious about other things I haven't covered, or something else entirely.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2013-03-15 07:02:57 UTC
If you plan to use drones a lot, get drones to 5 very soon. In fact, on most skills the one named after the skill category is good to take to 5. Others are more optional.

Otherwise, there's some good advice floating around here.
Velarra
#8 - 2013-03-15 14:46:41 UTC
'Agree with much suggested already. I'd likewise highlight the importance of Tech 2 light drones. Training drones to 5 asap & the drone supports to 4 would be a good route to go early on.

Finally training Propulsion Jamming to support the use of Stasis Webifiers which will help you effectively apply your damage on targets via your hybrids & drones.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#9 - 2013-03-15 15:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Read each skill description carefully. You can see the percentages that they add per level of training, and those percentages really add up!
The gunnery skill group actually takes awhile to get all skills to V, but be aware that V's is your ultimate goal there.
Get your related skills to IV and start the *faster.shorter* skills to V.

Those will be:
Gunnery-2% rate of fire per level. (rate of fire = DPS)
Rapid Firing-4% per level rate of fire increase as well
Motion Prediction-5% per level for tracking. This helps especially on frigate sized targets. (which is what you are currently killing in missions)
Sharp Shooter-Increases optimal range 5% per level. 'Optimal Range' means just what it says. Pretty important information for gun ship pilots.

Gallente Cruiser skill:
The description there doesn't really clue you in, so you have to read the Vexor information to see what applies. This is the same for all ships.

Vexor:
5% damage for medium turret damage per level
10% damage for drones damage and hit points per level
This description would imply that the Vexor is intended to be flown as a drone ship. Very common in the Gallente line up of ship classes.
Read up on the drone skills and train them in the same fashion as mentioned for the guns.
It also implies that the ship is bonused for Hybrid Guns. Most guns are racial, many ships give bonus's for them 'racially'

With all of these skills mentioned, you can see how all the percentages add up. More important, you will be able to *feel* the difference at each level.

I didn't touch on tank skills. You will need them as you move up to higher level missions.

Edit here: Looking back I see others have given the same advice more or less. Sorry to repeat it all Oops
My real/main point was to point out the skills information and comprehension.
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-15 15:37:15 UTC
I will toss some advice into the ring as well...NEVER use a fit you found on Battleclinic. 95% of them are crap.

Ask here on the forums, ask in corp/alliance chat, and check killboards for fits. Download EFT or EveHQ and make sure you can fit everything before purchasing it.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

NightBlade Starclasher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-03-15 15:57:58 UTC
This info is all awesome, its exactly what I've been looking for. I've basically been doing it trial by error, and trying out fittings I thought would be essential, but I will definitely pay more attention to the skill info. I already do but I was under the impression my current levels would have given me a better dps, but I guess I was wrong. And I'm actually embarrassed to say I knew about the hybrid bonus on the vexor, but I got all hot and horny when I read the name "siege cannon" and strapped on two large barrelled guns thinking it would help. For some reason my hybrids haven't been hitting anything at all and it was very discouraging.

I will definitely train my drones and get my gallente carrier skills up.

Thanks for all of the info and feel free to post any more hints or skill recommendations! I will definitely take the advice of experienced pilots.

Fly safe! And feel free to add me as a contact if I don't add you first, as stated I'm on shift at work so the best I can do is forum surf on my break haha.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#12 - 2013-03-15 16:14:57 UTC
Don't forget your slot 6 thru 10 implants. Some give generic turret damage whereas other are specific to turret type (e.g. medium projectile turrets)
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#13 - 2013-03-15 19:57:33 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
I will toss some advice into the ring as well...NEVER use a fit you found on Battleclinic. 95% of them are crap.

This is so true and sorely underestimated advice in my opinion.

Also remember that there is a huge difference in the ranges and tracking of short range and long range guns.

For Hybrids that is:
Blasters - Short range
Rails - Long range
NightBlade Starclasher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-15 20:33:09 UTC
Would short or long range targeting be more preferred? In my opinion letting the drones handle anything 20km+ would be best, and use short range weaponry. Yay/Nay?
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#15 - 2013-03-15 20:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
NightBlade Starclasher wrote:
Would short or long range targeting be more preferred? In my opinion letting the drones handle anything 20km+ would be best, and use short range weaponry. Yay/Nay?


Nay, for pve you usually want to be able to hit out to 20-40km depending on the situation, and longer range guns hit close things much better than close range guns hit things far away.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#16 - 2013-03-15 21:28:23 UTC
Also keep in mind people love to lie about & exaggerate their DPS to look cool. Take every DPS claim you hear with Lot's Wife.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-03-15 21:30:45 UTC
Long range is safer, short range is more dps. Try each, see which you like more.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-15 21:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
There is no magic skill that will suddenly give you 200 dps, however some of the more time efficient skills are:

Drones 5
Scout drone 5
Weapon upgrades 4
Gallente drone specialisation 2
Combat drone operation 4
Medium hybrid turret 4
Gunnery 5
Surgical strike 3
Rapid firing 4
Gallente cruiser 3
Sharpshooting 4
Trajectory analysis 4
Motion prediction 4
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2013-03-15 21:53:39 UTC
NightBlade Starclasher wrote:
Would short or long range targeting be more preferred? In my opinion letting the drones handle anything 20km+ would be best, and use short range weaponry. Yay/Nay?


Personal preference.

For hybrids, your options are railguns (low to medium DPS, medium to long range) or blasters (high DPS, short range).

I have a strong personal preference for blasters. I don't PVE much, but when I do it is in an Ishtar (t2 Vexor) with blasters and two tech 2 stasis webifiers. Ogre 2's for rats that are close (elite cruisers and normal frigates need a web for the -60% angular momentum for my drones to hit them, elite frigates require two webs for the 81% speed decrease). I kill webbing ships first, then EWAR ships, then DPS ships from smallest to largest.

However, longer range fits have their own advantages too.

Training tech 1 blasters and railguns requires the exact same skills, and the tech 2 ones overlap a lot, so you can train both and swap them to fit the situation. Blasters for Blockade (Serpentis) with all the tracking disruption, rails for Angel missions where some rats use medium neutralisers on you.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#20 - 2013-03-16 11:36:17 UTC
NightBlade Starclasher wrote:
Would short or long range targeting be more preferred? In my opinion letting the drones handle anything 20km+ would be best, and use short range weaponry. Yay/Nay?

NPCs target drones quite often and will kill them if not recalled. Would not recommend sending your drones too far away.

Light drones will only get targeted by frigates
Medium drones will get targeted by cruiser and down
Large/Sentry drones will get targeted by all NPCs
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