Market Discussions

Public run perpetual fund, with shares that pays out a dividend & actively trades, with premium monies. & IPO Monies. To be ran as a business, driven for profit (makes money by station trading, and has targets to meet for investors)

Aims: to "Insure" against Some losses when investing.

How does it work:
- Each bond is assessed & given a Risk bracket, and Premiums are priced accordingly.
- This is where a possible new hurdle can come into MD bonds "Will you supply insurance details to iCandy Insurance"

Fees:
High Risk: 20m 1% of investment (which ever is higher)
Medium Risk: 20m 0.1% of your investment. (which ever is higher)



How to apply for insurance.
- Ask the Fund manager if he will comply with this, and supply the following:
- Screenshot of the transferred money from both parties.
- Full API keys for Fund manager (All 3 characters on the trading account)
- Written confirmation that the Fund manager has received the isk. & amount.
- Deposit sent to insurance company, separate terms are agreed upon, between investee & Insurance agent.

Upon a successful bond
- Successful Bonds must prove payouts via screenshots, & written confirmation.
- Premium is returned to Investee, minus fee. (up to 7 day processing time)

Upon a Failed Bond.
- Bond is classified "failed" if no proof of payments can be made after 30 Days of the Final term date.
- a further 7 days for processing payouts.
-Premium + agreed insured amount is paid out.

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Please critic, just as idea i had to introduce another barrier for would-be scammers. The Model requires a Trader to viable, and about 10-15b in public isk to make the profits needed for this.

The only issue i see with it, is the risk brackets & the flaming that will come from them, if i post in say saveritrader's thread that "iCandy is offering insurance for this bond" would have to be handled descretely

Capped at 2b investment amount, max payout is 2b.

Essentially we could have a public run fund that insures against fraud.

Please don't hold back, this is a flash in the pan idea i just now had, i have nothing vested in it

The model is profitable, from fees, opportunity to trade/build, with a long enough turn around time for the Insurance Fund to gain value.

Wait can I invest in myself then? :P

Seen this in the past from browsing the old MD forums so not sure how it turned out but an interesting idea nonetheless. Waiting to see what I'm rated ^_^

There was a fund ran by a good fellow named Raw23. he used his own isk to help heal scams.

This idea takes it a little further, Investors actually gain isk & payments from pure trading.

Having 20 ppl wanting insurance on a fully secured bond will net the company 20m x 20 for minimal risk.

Absolute Worst case, the company has to pay out 100% of 2b.

@Claire: That's how insurance works, you buy the car first, then insure it, you can get quotes though, which is "how much would insurance cost me if i invest 500m in joe blogs" what you found though is the timing issue, (asking for insurance 20 days into a bond)

insurance policies are only available for 3 days after bond launch.

Again, its only an offer this particular company can offer, the core of the isk is made by trading & taking acceptable risks on player run bonds.

Car bought first, then insured, nothing new here but get quotes before you commit.



I usually comment on most bond threads anyway, its very easy to see where thought hasn't been placed.



Hedging the hedged hedge fund. this can be decided at a later date, it makes sense for things like this to be backed by assets, but usually IPO''s value is in the long term dividend payments, which if collateralized, would be in the region of 1%-2%



NO insurance payout over 2b, obviuously the company wouldn't insure 1 person in a bond, if it couldn't offer the same solution to the every bond holder.

every Bond over 20b is a scam anyway, not worth the risk to insure it.

Thanks for confirming american companies are bad at insurance ,

However this is spaceships, if the "company" for lack of a better word is all backed by assets, then what could go wrong? there's no governments, regulators, Watchdogs etc

Why would the company insure against a big risk? it wouldn't.

If you want to compare real life trading to spaceships, then you know where to post , if you want to critic my idea, put some substance into it.

Thankyou for the feedback.

When/if this launches, it will be very clearly laid out where the business revenue streams are. the obvious one would be station trading & production, the income from fees, being able to use deposits to make more isk also.

You will note i added a 30 day cooldown to defaulted loans, this gives the company a nice buffer to simply trade with the deposit to make the required Insurance payout, incase of scam. Again, it should be clear that the company is not a charity, and will be rather ruthless in the policies it takes on.

Im going to run alot of simulations on various situations myself later tonight, to find all the gaps in this idea, & plug them.

Even if no-one takes a policy, the shareholders get their returns Via dividend from trading with the initial capitol.

Also @Thor, those links pertain to tangibles insurance, not Bond insurance. will check thru them later when i run my Sims, thankyou again.

So i guess that makes you a tabloid author, which one do you work for National enquirer>?

see guys comparing real life to game is fun!

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but, Iv got some things to share with you for your consideration and thought.

Let me start off with, a little story I heard from a friend who useto live in Brooklyn, NY.

Once upon a time, people literally usto make a living by scamming insurance companies, they would literally make 5-10 car accidents per day.
4 people would get into a car and destroy it, use the scammed money to instantly buy another car and the story goes on and on.
New laws regulation and other things of the sort have all but blocked any kind of activity of this nature as people now don't get paid for scamming, they get the boot.

When I read down all of the posts, that story came to mind and I thought, How would I scam this person, or how would I go about this.

First of all you will need complete transparency from both parties, AKA AUDIT or full API of both parties to ensure some one doesn't create 100 alts, crates bonds, fills then with his own alts and continue on in a pyramid style.

2nd
you should never send ISK without doing a complete and utterly full review of everything that happened because once again, 2 friends deciding to loan each other 10B isk then sell the chars is inevitable, FULL API from both parties, which can then be explored for a legitimate reason for loss of ISK.

3rd
RULES:
Some types of losses should not be covered, such as getting ganked in a ******** way, like 25 plex in a shuttle or a freighter exceeding gank limits for sec status.
for example:
-.5 sec status, no more then 600M isk of estimated cargo value
-.6 sec status, no more then 700M isk of estimated cargo value
- etc.

3rd
you should offer your services both ways, to both the loanee and loaner.

4rth
Perhaps involve other trusted parties like VV who could do many audits for you for a discounted price (needs to be covered by customer)

5th
in the real world, insurance companies pay money bribes to politicians or sell then a million stocks for a penny or whatever, thus the government creates new laws that allow then insurance companies to do what they want, you don't have this hometown advantage, tread carefully.

---
and last but not least.
as far as I know, Candy Oshea is a character that logs on often, socializes and I believe to be authentically a trustworthy candidate.

1) Yeh theres always a risk of circular investors/shills taking both pieces of the pie. Ill run some sims & post the results.

2) only solution i can think of is being extremely thorough with Clients, as you say. & only insuring characters with a 2 year, actuve corp history (no anonymous alts)

The risk of company loss, has to be factored into the premium prices, if event of scam, premiums go up, if no scams, premiums can be lowered.

3) Very interesting idea, im not sure that applies to MD bond insurance though, unless you mean insurance against total Bond loss, like ganked etc? or :thulium:

So you are suggesting 2 different products essentially,

MD Bond Investor Insurance
MD Fund Manager insurance <-- ?

4) Involving other 3rd parties to MD events is simply a pain. They are either far too expensive, or far too busy for small potatoes.

If i go ahead with it, the initial funds raised with either be Collateral 100% held by Investor (with my alts given build/copy access). or partially collateral held by investor & rest possibly a higher yield rate for dividends.

Would love more feedback after i produce some Sims/examples, please Sub to thread Kara <3

Well here's the catch 22 of roleplay (where it makes perfect sense)

I could leverage my whole BPO collection against a loan & pay a "collateralized rate". & Still have Build/copy/research access to them.

what have i lost? Some Literally negligable interest, Market fees will cost more per month.
what have i gained? Capitol & lots of it, ready for more opportunities, whilst my collateral loses no value, or even gains value as research comes about.

People would call doing something like that roleplay, as i could essentially just sell the BPOs & make insurance company, but what missed opportunities would i miss out on then? BS Production, BS Copying list goes on. + its very hard to attain researched BPO's at good prices, let alone try and sell them for any higher than NPC.

Others would look past roleplay and see it is actually a pretty clever idea.

In the case of this Insurance company, i would probably go all in, & leverage it all to one player, set up a Contract for the BPOs for the IPO Price, ask them to lock them down in a corp (which i create for free), And give appropriate roles to my alts for them to do there thing & the investors CEO character, doesnt need to be logged in again.

Issue Shares from Candy's (my trader) Corporation (not the holding corp)

Any thoughts on that Mu?
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As for the target Audience, it will be aimed at every investor, in every Bond, i think you will find if a reasonable rate & return, players will take insurance policies out on their investments, coz why not? it may even enable more MD investors & improve "consumer confidence" but thats taking Rp one step to far :p

The core of the isk, will be made out of trading & production, The Insurance is roleplay to help MD Bonds be a tiny bit more viable, and maybe encourage some legitimate, Fund managers.

Its these numbers that i must crunch, to try and find the happy medium, "is company making a profit against an acceptable risk Vs are the premiums/fees reasonable for consumers."