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ancil reppers - what is wrong with them
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#1 - 2013-03-12 08:34:42 UTC
tried serveral ships with armor ancil reppers .... am I the only one, who thinks they suck?

especially if I compare them to ancil boosters.

1) low rep rate with paste (maybe it is bugged but no big difference to non paste rep)
2) can fit only 1

Maybe I am doing it wrong but so far the only setup i like it on was the dragoon so i dont have to bail the cap for the neuts.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-12 08:49:19 UTC
personally i think ancillary reppers are mainly designed to use by mission runners as rescue button in case if you got overwhelmed and need short boost in tanking to get out.

Not sure if they can be somehow used in PvP. Maybe frigate fights: the whole fight lasts around 1 minute and ancillary repper will work in "paste" mode like 2x reppers.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#3 - 2013-03-12 08:59:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
March rabbit wrote:
personally i think ancillary reppers are mainly designed to use by mission runners as rescue button in case if you got overwhelmed and need short boost in tanking to get out.

Not sure if they can be somehow used in PvP. Maybe frigate fights: the whole fight lasts around 1 minute and ancillary repper will work in "paste" mode like 2x reppers.


well i am using them in frig dessie fights .... and the paste mode DOES NOT WORK LIKE 2 reppers ... something is wrong.

and well for pve it is useless third repper will work better.... but i am not carebear so hard to say

for usual trolls ..... i have all affecting skills to lvl 5

so it is not skill problem :)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-03-12 09:14:29 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
personally i think ancillary reppers are mainly designed to use by mission runners as rescue button in case if you got overwhelmed and need short boost in tanking to get out.

Not sure if they can be somehow used in PvP. Maybe frigate fights: the whole fight lasts around 1 minute and ancillary repper will work in "paste" mode like 2x reppers.


and the paste mode DOES NOT WORK LIKE 2 reppers ... something is wrong.

you sure? they explicitly said "AR reps 2/3 of standard repper. In paste mode its rep amount is 3x" (which is 2x of standard repper)

btw: "standard repper" was somehow not clear for me because we have 5 "standard" reppesr from Meta 0 to Meta 5 (T2). Haven't checked tho

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Armeggeda iscariah
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#5 - 2013-03-12 09:36:44 UTC
Ancil reps work great on frigs in 1v1's that get rep bonuses. also work good on frigs that have high resists. been using it on my enyo recently , Got in a really good 2v4 Fight with it (Enyo/Atron Vs Enyo/Merlin/Maller/Rapier) and didnt lose my poor enyo because of the ancil rep.

Hail Satan.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-03-12 09:45:52 UTC
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#7 - 2013-03-12 12:25:03 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.



Well maybe it is just a matter of feel ... I am usually using at least 200mm plate on the ship wit A repper. And I had some good fights with that ships too..... but nothing stellar as with ASB. :)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-03-12 13:07:50 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.



Well maybe it is just a matter of feel ... I am usually using at least 200mm plate on the ship wit A repper. And I had some good fights with that ships too..... but nothing stellar as with ASB. :)



The thing with the ASB is that its a massive boost that is instant while the AAR is delayed.

The difference doesn't feel THAT great between using an AAR and a t2 but its there, recently did a 2v1 vs tristan and merlin and i managed to kill the tristan when i was in 30% hull. Would never have even attempted that with a t2.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#9 - 2013-03-12 13:32:56 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.



Well maybe it is just a matter of feel ... I am usually using at least 200mm plate on the ship wit A repper. And I had some good fights with that ships too..... but nothing stellar as with ASB. :)



The thing with the ASB is that its a massive boost that is instant while the AAR is delayed.

The difference doesn't feel THAT great between using an AAR and a t2 but its there, recently did a 2v1 vs tristan and merlin and i managed to kill the tristan when i was in 30% hull. Would never have even attempted that with a t2.



well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2013-03-12 13:40:29 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.



Well maybe it is just a matter of feel ... I am usually using at least 200mm plate on the ship wit A repper. And I had some good fights with that ships too..... but nothing stellar as with ASB. :)



The thing with the ASB is that its a massive boost that is instant while the AAR is delayed.

The difference doesn't feel THAT great between using an AAR and a t2 but its there, recently did a 2v1 vs tristan and merlin and i managed to kill the tristan when i was in 30% hull. Would never have even attempted that with a t2.



well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.



Dual rep setups take up two slots and need a cap booster so they are generally ****.

The AAR does not rep 2x that of a T2 its more like 1.66X or something (Havn't done maaaath)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#11 - 2013-03-12 13:44:07 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
You need a plate to use them properly on a frig. Can't do the whole bait tanking thing you can do with an ASB.



Well maybe it is just a matter of feel ... I am usually using at least 200mm plate on the ship wit A repper. And I had some good fights with that ships too..... but nothing stellar as with ASB. :)



The thing with the ASB is that its a massive boost that is instant while the AAR is delayed.

The difference doesn't feel THAT great between using an AAR and a t2 but its there, recently did a 2v1 vs tristan and merlin and i managed to kill the tristan when i was in 30% hull. Would never have even attempted that with a t2.



well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.



Dual rep setups take up two slots and need a cap booster so they are generally ****.

The AAR does not rep 2x that of a T2 its more like 1.66X or something (Havn't done maaaath)


that might be the problem ... it is just the edge of the 2v1 fights if you are pined down. And it is definetly beyond buffer fit of 400mm plate and APL in case u decide to buffer tank and hope.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2013-03-12 14:07:32 UTC
the Ancill armor rep was slated from the moment people understood how they would work. As usual though CCP didn't listen and did what they thought was best... despite being told the glaring issues that it presented.

It didn't bridge the gap between the shield and armor tanking disparities (EHP versus active). Changes to rigs and small reductions on fitting helped but not enough to make this module fully sort these discrepancies.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#13 - 2013-03-12 14:58:22 UTC
They are very underwhelming.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-03-12 15:48:47 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
the Ancill armor rep was slated from the moment people understood how they would work. As usual though CCP didn't listen and did what they thought was best... despite being told the glaring issues that it presented.

It didn't bridge the gap between the shield and armor tanking disparities (EHP versus active). Changes to rigs and small reductions on fitting helped but not enough to make this module fully sort these discrepancies.



Well AAR's outperform t2 for about 19 cycles

ASB's outperform t2 for about 11-13 i think.

I personally think they are really good but w/e

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

ALUCARD 1208
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#15 - 2013-03-12 16:03:52 UTC
isnt the trick to fit an ancil and a normal rep and pulse the ancil wen single reps breaking... i dk iv not really tried them but told the incursus and other rep bonused ships work well like this

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#16 - 2013-03-12 16:28:23 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.


Use one AAR and one normal rep. Primarily run the normal rep, and pulse the AAR as you need to catch up. They work very nicely together I find.

EDIT: Yeah pretty much what Alucard said.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#17 - 2013-03-12 16:49:18 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.


Use one AAR and one normal rep. Primarily run the normal rep, and pulse the AAR as you need to catch up. They work very nicely together I find.

EDIT: Yeah pretty much what Alucard said.



well nice on the paper but betterto run two normal reps ... long fightwise
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-12 18:01:10 UTC
Active tanking is just broken, the AAR would be ok if it was active tanking was balanced. The only reason ASB's are good is because larger sizes can be fit to smaller ships (sometimes 2 or 3 of them).
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#19 - 2013-03-12 18:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Hidden Snake wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.


Use one AAR and one normal rep. Primarily run the normal rep, and pulse the AAR as you need to catch up. They work very nicely together I find.

EDIT: Yeah pretty much what Alucard said.



well nice on the paper but betterto run two normal reps ... long fightwise


well, I turn auto reload off on my AAR's all the time. And most of my fights I find I need more repping power early as I try to get into my optimal//fight multiple people and towards the end of the fight I am at my optimal, taking less damage, and/or I've killed some people and the incoming dps has dropped off.

For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPFpkeKgE_Q : My AAR didn't run out of paste until after the merlin was in armor. After that, it wasn't bad tanking a hookbill with the un-nanited repper. This is pretty much how much of my AAR fights go against multiple people.
Seraph Castillon
In Control
#20 - 2013-03-12 21:19:39 UTC
You had SAR and MAR fits that worked before. Now they are just better. What's the problem with that?
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