EVE General Discussion

One can only hope that CCP continue to develop Eve as a holistic entity rather than, 'I want...because it is good for my partisan game play, while claiming that what is good for me is good for the game'

for eve to function as a holistic entity no region of space should provide everything you need for free

so yeah, hisec needs to be changed for eve to function as a "holistic entity" rather than being "hisec online"

This is where you guys lose me every time. Anyone playing even a modest industrial game now, manufacturing goods on-site, across multiple regions, say 15-30 jumps from their POS, in a dozen stations, will not agree that the proposed changes aren't a "nerf." They nerf that guy's game haarrrd. Instead of being able to remote manufacture directly at the selling station, this new-vision for industry revolves around a far-removed POS instead. Just requiring ownership of a POS (hundreds of millions of isk monthly) to profit at basic industry (how much do you think folks are making on their t1 modules?) and freightering to a ridiculous degree (whoops gotta buy one of those also) for the same isk is gonna be a tough sell.

As I've already written, if a new indy player is going to be burdened with POS costs/maintence costs and 100x the logistics, the price per hour of a public slot is really going to be the least of their problems.

Ironically, the biggest issue for me though is that this idea will adversely affect player fluidity, which in turn adversely affects pgc. Instead of possibly playing a multi-regional, far-reaching game, everyone will be instead be tethered to a single point in space, reducing their sphere of influence. When a belt is mined out, it respawns emaciated. That process alone will ensure that relocating your high-sec POS becomes a frequent requirement. If I had to relocate my POS, every time I relocated myself in this game, that's all I'd do. I suspect part of the problem here is that in null no such freedom of movement is an option so restricting high sec in the same way seems to make perfect sense.

When I think about all the freightering, POS relocating, fuel purchasing, and other new logistics required under a move high sec industry to POS's plan, for the same isk, there's no conclusion to be made other than it's a game-changing nerf to high sec. So when I see you guys denying this or worse, calling it a buff, I just think someone needs to call you out on that.

YK

This is true, and that's why we can accurately assume that anything endorsed by Goonswarm is bad for everyone else in EvE - and vice versa.

You guys are getting trolled pretty hard here I think. You know how I know?

Article 1) NPC Alt complaining about sock puppets.
Article 2) OP doesn't know what "SOV" is.
Article 3) OP's posts are all something like "MMMM, yes you're replying to me. That must mean I'm right about something. MMMM yes reply more, and harder."
Article 4) Its ******* obvious.

I was going to ask you to actually read the posts again and then I noticed the YK and realized myself and many others have been over this inaccurate drivel you keep spouting, time and time again. Yes someone might fall for your sensationalizing of the threads but in all honesty those that do can probably only write with crayon.

So give the mindless drivel a rest or if you want we can just copy and paste the same replies as before.

Edit: Actually I will just copy and paste this one, seems about as worth my time as I can be bothered.

Good. That would mean the game becomes a lot more balanced — a common reason to apply such nerfs.

Not really, since POSes aren't that expensive on an individual level, and since the profit from T1 will remain largely unchanged if all you're doing is moving people into POSes (and setting similar slot prices on NPC stations).

…but that's not what anyone is suggesting. In fact, those new players are going to be burdened with public slot costs since a part of the rebalancing is to make those comparable in expense to owning and running a POS or an outpost.

A little confused how this thread ever came to be.

Everyone (including CCP) knows sov is a broken system. The made a massive change to it a few years ago, which as we can all see now was not the solution they were hoping for.

rather than have another wild punt for a fix, they are trying to get it right. and it is finally coming to the top of their agenda for things that can be implemented.

Recently the amount of pressure for change coming from the player base has risen significantly. and that is understandable and good. hopefully the changes will be soon, maybe even the summer patch, but i'd rather they got it right, that suffer another few years.

All that said, I fully support those which want to see a rebalancing between high and null space, personally i'd rather see high sec income nerfed slightly (to combat inflation) and null buffed to be slightly more worthwhile than high due to risk.

the end result we really want to see is where people will build where they live, null or high. but it also needs to make sense for their to be some trade. however even this is a problem right now, as it makes more sense to export minerals from null that to import from high. If that can be reversed, then things will be looking pretty good.

i think...

Of course, the other message being pushed by many nullsec folks is that nullsec mining should be profitable when extracting 'hisec' minerals as well as the current 'null' ones. As I've not seen much in the way of argument from nullsec types that these two changes are mutually exclusive, it seems to me that they are all good with the idea that nullsec imports nothing from highsec and produces all goods locally. That means that ISK will flow in only one direction - out of highsec - until highsec lacks the wealth to buy the shiny goodies that require nullsec, lowsec, and WH imports, at which point highsec will have a third world economy, but without the sweatshops putting some small amount of money into its economy.

The only real question is whether people are advocating this out of malice, lack of foresight, or both.

Nonsense. If income really wasn't particularly a factor you'd be out there mining all those low-end ores that you have, but which aren't very attractive and are best left to highsec to provide because they'll do it for less than the hourly rate nullbears expect.

The thing that strikes me on roams through nullsec is how empty it is, and how underexploited it is - there are sites full of high-grade ores (so the miners aren't even cherry-picking all the good stuff) and mountains of 'high-sec' ore, and systems that clearly haven't had any of their combat sites cleared for a week or more (so if they're being worked over at all, it's by cherry-picking only the highest hourly rate sites).

No, nullbears and null PvPers when they're 'bearing it up are clearly very sensitive to income rates. If they weren't they'd actually compete with highsec rock miners, but as that'd involve a hit in their income, they aren't.

Now, it's probably correct to say that for the null pvpers "they are not very interested in income for its own sake", just as you can say that for pvpers anywhere and the people who buy shiny ships because they're shiny all over New Eden. But claiming that they don't particularly care about income is just BS.