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War ally wants to leave the war -- how does that work?
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Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#1 - 2013-03-11 21:46:26 UTC
An ally which sprung to our aid when we got wardec'd buy a ganker corp has been having second thoughts about their participation.

Discussions are still under way, and stuff, but if they do want out, how do we make that happen?

And I mean that literally: what buttons do we push in the game & where are they -- Is there a tutorial somewhere?

I've been trying to google it, but I keep getting a bunch of threads about other topics with similar keywords. We need to know how to do this and what the implications & ramifications might be so that the option is available.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-03-11 21:49:46 UTC
Their war ends when your war ends.

Sorry.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Orlacc
#3 - 2013-03-11 21:58:40 UTC
In for a dime, in for a dollar....

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#4 - 2013-03-11 21:59:08 UTC
That's unfortunate, but it's exactly the sort of thing I needed to know.

Thank you for your help.
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#5 - 2013-03-11 22:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bridgette d'Iberville
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72889

That was a DevBlog from the big Inferno wardec change patch. I guess they have already changed things as, according to that blog, ally contracts were only supposed to last two weeks and you could jettson allies by making the war mutual.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-03-12 05:47:30 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72889

That was a DevBlog from the big Inferno wardec change patch. I guess they have already changed things as, according to that blog, ally contracts were only supposed to last two weeks and you could jettson allies by making the war mutual.


Yep.. making the war mutual will kickout your allies. You can then make it not mutual again for it to end.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#7 - 2013-03-12 07:21:04 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72889

That was a DevBlog from the big Inferno wardec change patch. I guess they have already changed things as, according to that blog, ally contracts were only supposed to last two weeks and you could jettson allies by making the war mutual.


Yep.. making the war mutual will kickout your allies. You can then make it not mutual again for it to end.


Excellent, thank you. It's helpful to know that this option is available.

After our two fledgling attempts at fielding war-fleets got curbstomped this weekend (by a single veteran pilot... we're still pretty new at this -.-;; ), our ally's boss has been agitating for us to pay the extortion fee and surrender, but we've categorically refused.

So much drama in this game.... It's amazing.
Andres Talas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-03-12 08:50:49 UTC
Hollis Boirelle wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72889

That was a DevBlog from the big Inferno wardec change patch. I guess they have already changed things as, according to that blog, ally contracts were only supposed to last two weeks and you could jettson allies by making the war mutual.


Yep.. making the war mutual will kickout your allies. You can then make it not mutual again for it to end.


Excellent, thank you. It's helpful to know that this option is available.

After our two fledgling attempts at fielding war-fleets got curbstomped this weekend (by a single veteran pilot... we're still pretty new at this -.-;; ), our ally's boss has been agitating for us to pay the extortion fee and surrender, but we've categorically refused.

So much drama in this game.... It's amazing.


Tech 1 logistics and tech 1 ewar ships are your friend. Have the logi have everyone watchlisted and target your blackbird, and have the blackbirds ready to warp to a celestial object if they get locked. Have everyone else in small, fast ships. Insure everything, and assume the fleet is lost as soon as you undock.

And have fun out there :)
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#9 - 2013-03-12 12:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hollis Boirelle
Upon further investigation, it appears the "mutual war" option currently requires cooperation from the aggressor, which we are unlikely to get under our present circumstances....

Unfortunate.

Andres Talas wrote:
Tech 1 logistics and tech 1 ewar ships are your friend. Have the logi have everyone watchlisted and target your blackbird, and have the blackbirds ready to warp to a celestial object if they get locked. Have everyone else in small, fast ships. Insure everything, and assume the fleet is lost as soon as you undock.

I appreciate the advice, but we're not in much of a position to use it atm.

We're pretty wrecked -- the other corp hired to hit us managed to scout and pop the last cruiser we had in the sky last night.

Quote:
And have fun out there :)


Thanks!
Merouk Baas
#10 - 2013-03-12 13:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
I thought mutual war was just you declare war on the aggressor, so the aggressor has a war on you and you have a war right back, which makes it mutual. They don't have to agree.

I also thought that the ally thing was limited to 2 weeks, after which they get kicked out and have to re-ally if they want to.

Here's the original War Ally Dev Blog. Here's the blog with the 2 week period and the mutual exclusion, devblog published a month later.
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#11 - 2013-03-13 02:04:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hollis Boirelle
Merouk Baas wrote:
I thought mutual war was just you declare war on the aggressor, so the aggressor has a war on you and you have a war right back, which makes it mutual. They don't have to agree.


I just tried this -- less than a minute ago -- and all I'm getting is an error message that we're already at war.

All the information on making wars mutual I've found seems to come from earlier patches, and doesnt match what I see in-game.

So it looks like we really might be stuck for the time being?

Or is there something really obvious and simple that I'm just missing?
Haulie Berry
#12 - 2013-03-13 02:33:42 UTC
Quote:
I appreciate the advice, but we're not in much of a position to use it atm.


Why not?
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#13 - 2013-03-13 02:43:05 UTC
We dont have pilots with the necessesary skills trained, are low on disposeable resources atm, are still working on developing pretty basic teamwork skills, and even finding any of their guys before they get the drop on us has proven to be outside our capabilites atm.

And quite frankly, their guys are a lot better and more experienced than ours atm.

So, we're bunkering down and trying to keep losses low for the time being.
Andres Talas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-13 04:08:23 UTC
Hollis Boirelle wrote:
We dont have pilots with the necessesary skills trained, are low on disposeable resources atm, are still working on developing pretty basic teamwork skills, and even finding any of their guys before they get the drop on us has proven to be outside our capabilites atm.

And quite frankly, their guys are a lot better and more experienced than ours atm.

So, we're bunkering down and trying to keep losses low for the time being.


OK, time to - literally - move to plan B.

Solitude.

Google 'ombey eve maps' or 'dotlan eve maps' and look up the region of Solitude. Its an island of Gallente hisec, completely surrounded by nullsec and losec. Its got all the facilities of hisec, including low level agents and so on.

The plan is therefore for you and yours to run there, and then rebuild.

Now, your enemies will presumably be running other extortion wardecs, and presumably wont want to chase you all the way to Solitude.

The run will be made in frigates, carrying only ammo.

Once you get there, issue me a contract for a unit of tritanium or something, so I can see you got to Solitude. I will then, from my Sekrit Nullsec Base, run a single Guristas Forsaken Hub for you and yours, and give you the proceeds to help you rebuild to where you can mine, run level one missions or whatnot. I cant give guarantees, but it'll probably net around 37m including loot and salvage.

In exchange, I need you to promise two things : firstly, that you and yours will get some combat skills, and some combat ships, and will have an honest attempt at ganking the ever-living everything out of the griefers who targetted you, and secondly that I can call in a favour at some point that will not involve you screwing over your corpmates, alliance members or blues.
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#15 - 2013-03-13 05:45:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hollis Boirelle
While your offer is very flattering, here's the thing: We're not running. We're not folding. We're not crying or begging for mercy.

We may not have much, but we do have our pride. =)

Miners are still mining, missioners are still missioning, explorers are still exploring. We're just learning to be more careful and keep losses to a minimum while we ride this thing out. We'll bounce back.

In this thread, we're just looking for a way to cut the risk to another corp that tried to jump in and help us out before we all fully understood the situation.


And the situation is kind of crazy. I just haven't really gone into it here.

If we we're looking for hand-holding while we learned our way around the game, we'd have all joined more established corporations. But thanks again for the invitation. =)
Andres Talas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-03-13 06:20:11 UTC
Hollis Boirelle wrote:
While your offer is very flattering, here's the thing: We're not running.

We may not have much, but we do have our pride. =)

Miners are still mining, missioners are still missioning, explorers are still exploring. We're just learning to be more careful and keep losses to a minimum while we ride this thing out.

In this thread, we're just looking for a way to cut the risk to another corp that tried to jump in and help us out before we all fully understood the situation.


And the situation is kind of crazy. I just haven't really gone into it here.

If we we're looking for hand-holding while we learned our way around the game, we'd have all joined more established corporations. But thanks again for the invitation. =)


Dont think of it as running - think of it as moving to a more secure base of operation :)

Some of the finest entities in this game have crashed on a couch before getting their groove back ... but good to hear you're learning to be careful and to ride this thing out.

Look at what you've done right and done wrong in the war.

Im a big believer in central ship reserves, with people knowing what to train for to avoid this issue.

Right this instance in some null region or other, we're facing cheetatalos talos machariel machariel sleipnir, belonging to a mob called Verge of Collapse (who dont know much about PvP. That Alliance Tournament win was all coincidence, I tell you). They've already ganked ~600m of ships in the pocket.

Ive called for short range armour brawlers to fight them in home defense.

[06:03:44] [deleted] > got either a draker or a tengu - shield tanked of course
[06:04:23] Andres Talas > [deleted] I can throw you in a blackbird
[06:04:50] [deleted] send me fir i see if i can use all of it please.

Please, dont let your people be That Guy.
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#17 - 2013-03-13 06:25:52 UTC
Again, it's a very flattering invitation, but we've moved completely off topic.

(also, I think there are rules against recruiting here, so you might want to tone that down.)


The question remains: So is there a way to make the war "mutual" in order to shed allies? Or are they locked in until the war runs it's course?
Andres Talas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-13 07:15:35 UTC
Hollis Boirelle wrote:
Again, it's a very flattering invitation, but we've moved completely off topic.

(also, I think there are rules against recruiting here, so you might want to tone that down.)


The question remains: So is there a way to make the war "mutual" in order to shed allies? Or are they locked in until the war runs it's course?


Oh, it wasnt an invite - it was an example of what by good leadership you shouldnt let happen :)

Regarding "mutual" wardecs, you might want a look at this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/12g9ss/dec_shields_progress/
Hollis Boirelle
Variables Unlimited
Urukian Collective
#19 - 2013-03-13 07:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Hollis Boirelle
Yeah, I read about that, but thanks.

Unfortunately, it's out-dated and doesn't relate to the current game mechanics as far as I can tell.


EDIT: Editing this post instead of adding a new one because there's no reason to bump the thread unless anyone happens to have information regarding the current mechanics of mutual wars...

... but for the sake of future browsers, I just thought I'd confirm that -- as mentioned by two of the posters above -- war ally agreements last two weeks unless they are renewed at the end of that period.

The end-date for the current ally agreement can be checked by mousing over the allied corp in the "Our Wars" sub-tab of the corporate Wars tab.


EDIT #2: Okay, so it turns out that it WAS something simple and obvious that I'd been missing earlier:

Only the CEO has the privilege level to make a war mutual. Director privilege isn't good enough, so it wasn't showing up for me.

Thanks again to everyone who responded!