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How I feel about eve now...

Author
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#1 - 2013-03-10 21:39:12 UTC
So, after taking a break that expanded 3 expansions, I find myself back in new eden, only to experience this feels;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9gC1GiSDDA
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-03-10 21:42:30 UTC
Recent studies show that pilots in NPC corps enjoy life less and have lower sperm count.

.

iskflakes
#3 - 2013-03-10 21:47:14 UTC
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill

-

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2013-03-10 21:48:47 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill


So, where can we find your magnificent proposal to make 1+1 !> 1?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#5 - 2013-03-10 21:49:42 UTC
Ira Infernus wrote:
So, after taking a break that expanded 3 expansions, snip


18 months

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#6 - 2013-03-10 21:52:26 UTC
Too bad, because the game is in great shape. The last 3 the last expansions were great.

The Tears Must Flow

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-03-10 22:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
RubyPorto wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill


So, where can we find your magnificent proposal to make 1+1 !> 1?

shorter server ticks would be a possible (and not completely crazy) answer to that question

1 Hz leaves a lot of room for errors and contributes to fights often being decided on the fitting screen or by numbers.

more "overheat"-like options and less cap stability would probably help, too - active management of your ship's resources should be required even during large fights.

.

Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-03-10 22:23:48 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

shorter server ticks would be a possible (and not completely crazy) answer to that question

1 Hz leaves a lot of room for errors and contributes to fights often being decided on the fitting screen or by numbers.


... lol

Reducing server tick times just increases lag and bandwidth requirements. The answer to removing blobs is not increasing lag, sorry. Secondly, if you think a fight starting a fraction of a second sooner makes a difference... please go pvp at least once before you try to "fix" pvp.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-10 22:51:34 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill


So, where can we find your magnificent proposal to make 1+1 !> 1?

shorter server ticks would be a possible (and not completely crazy) answer to that question

1 Hz leaves a lot of room for errors and contributes to fights often being decided on the fitting screen or by numbers.

more "overheat"-like options and less cap stability would probably help, too - active management of your ship's resources should be required even during large fights.
Thank you for displaying that you don't really know what you're writing or why you're writing it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#10 - 2013-03-10 23:22:58 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill


So, where can we find your magnificent proposal to make 1+1 !> 1?

shorter server ticks would be a possible (and not completely crazy) answer to that question

1 Hz leaves a lot of room for errors and contributes to fights often being decided on the fitting screen or by numbers.

more "overheat"-like options and less cap stability would probably help, too - active management of your ship's resources should be required even during large fights.


Would do nothing to change the fact that 1+1 > 1, and would cripple the server (i.e. is completely crazy).

Active management of your ship's resources are often required even during large fights.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-03-11 00:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
not going to address the 1 + 1 > 1 strawman, if you want to use pseudo-math then "blobs [are] more important than skill" translates to 0.5 + 0.5 > 1

RubyPorto wrote:
Active management of your ship's resources are often required even during large fights.

it's so much "required" that entire fleet compositions are designed to reduce the number of tasks a pilot has to pay attention to (encouragement to let active hardeners cycle at all times, cap stable Drakes, "approach the anchor" over aligning even in sniping fleets, fleet warps over individual warps at all times, Guardians with three energy transfers, ...) and still we win, win, win.

The extra effort required to train pilots to a basic level of competency is a much greater cost than to just recruit another warm body and profit from 0.5 + 0.5 > 1.

You have spent 10 months in waffles so far (and will probably spend another few months before you graduate) - 10 months in which you didn't contribute to alliance efforts (other than in the odd bomber fleet) just so you will eventually perform maybe 20% better (to pull some number out of thin air) in large fleets than your average HBC grunt.

You wonder why waffles have been getting neglected by PL? because you are a horribly wasteful anachronism, because one can train dozens of testies in the time it takes for one of you to get ready for graduation, because quantity beats quality every. single. time.

Take a look at the world around you and your own place in it (and then go afk or join ISRAD like everyone else does).

.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#12 - 2013-03-11 01:04:30 UTC
High damage aoe from destroyed ships could solve the issue of blobs, or at least make blobs break up into formations. Ofc you would be insta podded every time.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Alara IonStorm
#13 - 2013-03-11 01:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Vera Algaert wrote:
because quantity beats quality every. single. time.

And in turn so many Battles where one side has less in numbers come out ahead.

Quantity is a factor but only one of four factors to success is EVE War.

Numbers
Experience
Wealth
Dedication


Numbers of course let you mobilize a greater fleet. An advantage maintained by recruitment and player retention. Anything you can do with the other factors you can do more of with numbers.

Experience lets you counter enemy strategies. Wage guerrilla warfare and attack your enemies in area's they don't expect. Fly ships with higher survivability then an enemy that takes the easiest route. Pick targets effectively.

Wealth gives you greater options. They bring Drakes they meet Abaddon's. Collection of resources and dolling them out in the right area's through experience gives you the tools and infrastructure required to tough it out.

Dedication comes in looking at the % of the population willing to fight. If you defeat an enemy fleet with your massive blob and they show up 3 hours later, and again, and again, and again attrition sets in, in a less dedicated enemy. If they are constantly berated by nanoships and cloakies behind the lines and victories do nothing to stop attacks eventually they'll lose participation and even members. Especially if enemy strategies mean you lose more then they do on the line and behind it.


Constant maintenance is required to dominate all four and a power that has more of these then another is guaranteed higher success. Maintaining them all is difficult in themselves and can be tested by an effective enemy. Therefor the powers that maintain them deserve their advantage and the powers that do these things better have a greater chance of breaking their enemy. It isn't the quantity that wins it is the quality, equipment and dedication of that quantity.

I personally like this aspect of EVE. That instead of game mechanics that manage fairness in fights groups must instead manage themselves to create the most power possible through recruitment, training, industry (Not the mechanic but the harvesting of wealth) and to always be pushing forward to keep your group together, interested and active. Balancing the needs of the individual members and the state which holds them together in an effort to create a more unified society then an enemies which everyone in your society could quit and join at anytime if it is better meaning Empires must be competitive.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2013-03-11 02:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Vera Algaert wrote:
not going to address the 1 + 1 > 1 strawman, if you want to use pseudo-math then "blobs [are] more important than skill" translates to 0.5 + 0.5 > 1


I think you'll find that there is no objective evidence that the people who claim that their opponents are unskillful blobbers are actually any more skilled. And that there's plenty of evidence that a well prepared and skillful group can do tremendous damage to a less prepared, less skillful, much larger group.

So describing your call as asking for 1+1 !> 1 is no strawman at all.

Quote:
it's so much "required" that entire fleet compositions are designed to reduce the number of tasks a pilot has to pay attention to (encouragement to let active hardeners cycle at all times, cap stable Drakes, "approach the anchor" over aligning even in sniping fleets, fleet warps over individual warps at all times, Guardians with three energy transfers, ...) and still we win, win, win.


Close coordination of movement in battle is important. Designing a fleet composition that aids that is not a sign of your pilots being unskillful. (Also, I've never seen any competent group use cap stable drakes as a doctrine, let alone 3 transfer guardians, and in most fleets aligning has been preferred over follow the anchor. Sniping fleets often should follow the anchor because there isn't always a good celestial to be aligned to. Fleet warps fall under that close coordination thing.)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-03-11 02:58:03 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Close coordination of movement in battle is important. Designing a fleet composition that aids that is not a sign of your pilots being unskillful. (Also, I've never seen any competent group use cap stable drakes as a doctrine...

EVOKE used cap stable drakes; we stole the idea from them.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2013-03-11 03:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Gorn Arming wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Close coordination of movement in battle is important. Designing a fleet composition that aids that is not a sign of your pilots being unskillful. (Also, I've never seen any competent group use cap stable drakes as a doctrine...

EVOKE used cap stable drakes; we stole the idea from them.


Seems silly, but alright.

Anyway, I don't imagine that the reason for the cap stability is to remove the pilot's need to know when he should be MWDing (i.e. to compensate for lack of pilot skill). I imagine it's that the composition requires enough movement that a normal drake would run out of cap.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#17 - 2013-03-11 08:30:44 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Quantity is a factor but only one of four factors to success is EVE War.

Numbers
Experience
Wealth
Dedication


You left out 7 other critically important things:
Spies
Boosting
Spies
RL Wealth to fuel PLEX sales for "Wealth"
Spies
Not pushing to wrong button at the worst possible time
Spies

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Josef Djugashvilis
#18 - 2013-03-11 08:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Roime wrote:
Recent studies show that pilots in NPC corps enjoy life less and have lower sperm count.



Does that also apply to tough guy null-sec NPC alts flying in and out of hi-sec to trade and run missions etc?

This is not a signature.

Signal11th
#19 - 2013-03-11 08:51:31 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
The game went downhill after CCP made blobs more important than skill


So, where can we find your magnificent proposal to make 1+1 !> 1?

shorter server ticks would be a possible (and not completely crazy) answer to that question

1 Hz leaves a lot of room for errors and contributes to fights often being decided on the fitting screen or by numbers.

more "overheat"-like options and less cap stability would probably help, too - active management of your ship's resources should be required even during large fights.


Would do nothing to change the fact that 1+1 > 1, and would cripple the server (i.e. is completely crazy).

Active management of your ship's resources are often required even during large fights.



Are they? I usually wait for tidi to kick in at 10% then go and make myself a cup of tea or watch a film.
It's a commonly held thought that 0.0 is just a bag o'shite at the moment but you still get the "Oh noes, if people realise 0.0 is a great steaming turd, EVE will die" people basically shouting down or reeling out the usual old arguments.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Whitehound
#20 - 2013-03-11 09:02:06 UTC
Ira Infernus wrote:
So, after taking a break that expanded 3 expansions, I find myself back in new eden, only to experience this feels;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9gC1GiSDDA

What were you expecting and do you have a video of it?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

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