These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New pilot seeks advice!

Author
Gautier Dutetre
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-03-09 03:49:38 UTC
Hello! I've recently started EVE for the first time and am having a bit of trouble taking in...pretty much everything!

I am a big fan of Player Versus Player combat in MMO's and other competitive online games. Is there a tutorial that lets you practice PvP without losing a ship, or maybe an area that I can go to so I can get used to fighting other players without taking serious losses?

Are there any skills you MUST HAVE before going out to PvP?

Is it possible for a new player to take on an older player in a fight and come out on top due to skill and knowing what to do in a given situation, or will new players be forever harvested by the older, more trained players?

How do I join chat channels?

Is there any sort of Lore book for the EVE Universe, perhaps a role playing guide to help my character fit in with the setting and tell me what is/is not/should not be?
Blackhuey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-03-09 04:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Blackhuey
Hey and welcome to Eve. I'll try and answer your questions for you.

Practicing very basic combat on npc pirates in asteroid belts is a good first step to get used to activating your modules and the basics of the combat system. For low cost PVP, you have a few options. The test server allows you to buy anything really cheap and try out ships and fits in a pretty much consequence free environment. On the main server, so long as you keep your ships cheap, duelling and heading out to lowsec will quickly find you fights and though you will lose a lot, you'll learn fast.

Don't worry too much about losing your ship - it will happen, and the sooner you lose the fear of losing, the quicker you'll become a competent PVPer. Just keep the costs manageable by flying what you can afford to lose. Also, a big corp/alliance will often provide newbie ship for free and/or replace losses on operations. TEST, Goonswarm, Eve Uni, etc all have ship replacement programs. You will also get more out of PVP in a gang than you will solo.

The only absolute skill requirement is a preparedness to lose. Everything else is gravy. Newbies are often assigned the role of "tackler" in a gang - i.e. snagging the prey with a warp scrammer/disruptor while the rest of the fleet shoots them. If you can fly a relatively fast ship with a scram and a propulsion mod (afterburner or MWD), you can tackle. Again, a big corp/alliance will help you here.

Small ships take down big ships all the time. There is a limit to which skills affect the ship's capability; e.g. you can max all skills for a Rifter fairly quickly, and even a 10 year vet can't have more than that in skills relative to a Rifter. Then it comes down to budget for fits and the experience of the meat popsicle at the keyboard. A gang of newbies in cheap cruisers can and do take down faction battleships. And a 2 day old newbie in a tackler can be the reason that battleship couldn't get away.

To join chat channel, click the icon that looks like a speech bubble at the top of your corp chat window.

For lore, check out the Evelopedia.

Hit me up ingame if you have any more questions. May you get your first kill soon!

@blackhuey | soundcloud.com/blackhuey

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-03-09 04:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Gautier Dutetre wrote:
I am a big fan of Player Versus Player combat in MMO's and other competitive online games. Is there a tutorial that lets you practice PvP without losing a ship, or maybe an area that I can go to so I can get used to fighting other players without taking serious losses?

The test servers can do exactly this. Everything can be bought for 100 ISK and non-consensual combat is not allowed.

Alternatively... find some more experienced players and work with them. Sometimes they will give you a pile of "cheap" ships you can lose.

Gautier Dutetre wrote:
Are there any skills you MUST HAVE before going out to PvP?

Outside of the ship and weapon system of your choice...

- Propulsion Jamming (to use Warp Disruptors, Warp Scramblers, and Stasis Webifiers)
- Afterburner (self explanatory)
- High Speed Maneuvering (to use MicroWarpdrives)

And that's pretty much it. With these skills you can aid a larger, bulkier ally with a small ship and keep targets "pointed" and "tackled" (see: "disabled their ability to warp" and "pinned down so they can't move")

Gautier Dutetre wrote:
Is it possible for a new player to take on an older player in a fight and come out on top due to skill and knowing what to do in a given situation, or will new players be forever harvested by the older, more trained players?

This is the beauty of the skill system and how ships are balanced.

- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.

- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.
Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.

- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4, you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5.

- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (because it's faster).

- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another.
Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor every 24 second... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor every 3 seconds... etc. etc.


tl;dr...
- the point of the skill system is to force you to learn the game's mechanics and nuances in cheaper equipment and ships... that way when you DO gain access to more expensive equipment and ships, you know HOW to use them properly.

- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not give a player "I WIN" abilities. It simply gives a player a greater edge at an exponentially higher cost.
Ex: A group of three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 to 800 thousand ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.

- more SP is not indicative of a pilot's ability. It just means that the pilot has more options in what he/she can do.

- no one ship is superior to everything in the game. Even Titans, the largest ship in the game, has its Achilles heel; smaller ships.


Gautier Dutetre wrote:
Is there any sort of Lore book for the EVE Universe, perhaps a role playing guide to help my character fit in with the setting and tell me what is/is not/should not be?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Portal:EVE_Chronicles

Start with the "Jovian Wetgrave" and go from there.
Gautier Dutetre
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-03-09 04:33:30 UTC
Thank you ShahFluffers and BlackHuey for your posts.

If I wanted to get into PVP combat as soon as possible, what should I train for and why?
Blackhuey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-09 04:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Blackhuey
1. join a pvp corp/alliance
2. ask them to teach you how to tackle
3. train what they say

You will be in PVP before you can say ERMEGHERD IMMA ON FIRE HALP. Most likely, just immediately before you say that :)

All PVP corps want more tacklers and logistics pilots, especially keen ones who will fleet up regularly. Your attitude is a much bigger asset to you than your skills, at almost any level.

@blackhuey | soundcloud.com/blackhuey

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2013-03-09 07:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Gautier Dutetre wrote:
If I wanted to get into PVP combat as soon as possible, what should I train for and why?

That's entirely up to you.

Certain racial lines are good at certain things and are weak in other things.

Some examples:
- If you like brawler, "in your face" style combat then Gallente might be a good choice. Their primary weapon system is the blaster which has the highest damage potential in the game... however blasters also have the shortest range. Gallente ships are also not the most nimble around... making them easy targets for "kiters" (see: "skirmishing ships")

- If you perfer "tank and gank" style combat then you can't go wrong with the Amarr lineup. Their ships can layer themselves in armor and their weapons allow them to hit out equally well at medium-short and long ranges. Be careful though as Amarr ships are the slowest in the game and aren't the best when operating "solo."

- Caldari offer "ranged" style combat and excel in arguably the most potent and annoying electronic warfare style around; ECM. They also have a few "brawler" type ships that can pump out a decent amount of damage. The only issue with Caldari is that their ships suffer from deep "trade-offs" within their specialty; ECM ships are "squishy," most of their ranged ships deal lackluster damage, and their brawler ships are slower than most.

- Minmatar are possess some of the best skirmishing ships in the game... able to buzz around a target, deal damage, and fly away if things go south. They also have a ranged weapon system (artillery) that deal very high volley damage which is ideal if you want to end a fight before it starts. And if you are a bit indecisive about which weapon or tanking style (turrets or missiles... armor or shields) then this is a good "starter race" as Minmatar ship can be fitted many, many ways.
However, most Minmatar ships suffer from poorer HP levels compared to other races... making them a little bit squishy. Their versatility in using many different weapon and tanking styles also means you need to train many more skills to get the most out of them.


Beyond this... you have the different ship classes with their own pros and cons.

- Frigates: fast, nimble, and squishy. They can lock up ships the fastest and are ideal in running down targets of interest. Frigs also are among the cheapest ships in the game.

- Destroyers: anti-frigate platforms that pack a punch... at the cost of duability. Think of a slower frigate with the same tank and damage just below cruiser level. Uses the same sized mods as frigates.

- Cruisers: "bread and butter" ships that deal good damage and have strong tanks. Their mobility is quite limited compared to frigates and destroyers, but significantly better compared to larger classes. Probably one of the most versatile of the classes, they can fend off frigates and attack ships significantly larger than themselves... if used correctly that is.

- Battlecruisers: same as the cruiser class but with either battleship level tank OR battleship level gank. They are popular for having more combat options and "staying power" compared to cruisers... at the cost of mobility.

- Battleships: the largest of the sub-capital ships, but also the most vulnerable. Few things can match the durability and firepower of a battleship making it ideal for defensive operations and high-stakes "brawls." Unfortunately these ships have the mobility of a pregnant whale in cold molasses and are thus quite vulnerable to smaller, faster ships. Best when used with other [smaller] ships and not to be used with poor skills.

Beyond this you have capital and supercapital class ships which you don't need to know too much about... yet.



The general outlines above should help you narrow down what you want to train for. Remember that you can train anything in the game regardless of your starting race without penalty... so no need to "re-roll."
Jensaro Koraka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-09 10:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jensaro Koraka
Read this guide and the guides on this site. The first guide is quite out of date, but a lot of the stuff in it is still good info. Try to find a good corp that accept newbies and is willing to train you.

Gautier Dutetre wrote:
Are there any skills you MUST HAVE before going out to PvP?

At the very minimum you need to be able to fit a scrambler and either an afterburner or microwarp.

Gautier Dutetre wrote:
Is it possible for a new player to take on an older player in a fight and come out on top due to skill and knowing what to do in a given situation, or will new players be forever harvested by the older, more trained players?

Week old player vs 3 year player? Very unlikely. He'll have T2 guns and ships. 2 year old player vs 3 year old player? Yes, very possible.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#8 - 2013-03-09 18:47:15 UTC
T2 guns will help no player against stupidity. I have seen total newbies absolutely destroy 2005 characters. Said newbies did have a very good grasp of the agression mechanics though. Cool