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Should nullsec industry > hisec industry?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#621 - 2013-03-08 21:15:25 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Making friends with the NPCs in highsec is much better.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#622 - 2013-03-08 21:17:36 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Making friends with the NPCs in highsec is much better.


I could not agree more. No stress. More profitable. Let's me play the game the way I enjoy playing it.... Without which, I won't play. I know. I've seen me quit this game a couple times now.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#623 - 2013-03-08 21:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Alavaria Fera wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Making friends with the NPCs in highsec is much better.


You mad.

Big smile

What really needs to happen is CCP needs to break up the big blue donut. I would be willing to bet that null sec will be substantially changed long before any nerf comes to high sec.

The tears will be glorious coming from these null sec care bears as their isk faucets dry up and they actually have to work to hold onto systems.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
flakeys
Doomheim
#624 - 2013-03-08 21:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Mr Kidd wrote:
flakeys wrote:

And i just said that should be the case .Beter minerals , better ratting , plexes , building your titans and offcourse that o so precious technetium.Null reward should be bigger and that should be obvious.

So , that cleared up and keeping in mind what i said above that industry works as explained , why should null have bigger industry then empire?Or is it just simply the ' We wanna have it all on our side of the sandbox' mentality?Because as usuall that impression is pounding hard on the door at the moment.


Null's reward is bigger, substantially bigger than the rest of Eve. The rest of New Eden can't help it if you're giving all your moongoo profit to your alliance leaving your individual players with a pat on the back telling them "at'ta boy!"and sht in both hands.

If null was handed everything, the rest of New Eden laid waste, those alliances who you've handed the chains to the dog collars around your corps' necks would still want more from you and you'd still be left with figuring out how to improve null by taking more from an empty Hisec.



Mr kidd ... if you actually read the thread i was replying to someone in favour of the change and i stated why i was against it.I live in high-sec atm.


Stop doing your name honour kid ....

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#625 - 2013-03-08 21:19:22 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Making friends with the NPCs in highsec is much better.

I could not agree more. No stress. More profitable. Let's me play the game the way I enjoy playing it.... Without which, I won't play. I know. I've seen me quit this game a couple times now.

Did your unsubs help push CCP toward a greater realization that safety in highsec is of paramount importance to the continuing health of EVE Online (which is dying)?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#626 - 2013-03-08 21:22:19 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Making friends with the NPCs in highsec is much better.

I could not agree more. No stress. More profitable. Let's me play the game the way I enjoy playing it.... Without which, I won't play. I know. I've seen me quit this game a couple times now.

Did your unsubs help push CCP toward a greater realization that safety in highsec is of paramount importance to the continuing health of EVE Online (which is dying)?


Oh noes!!! EVE is dying!!

The boring ass null sec big blue donut might be "dying" (good riddance) but EVE is doing just fine.

Maybe if the big blue donut way of life goes some of the more neanderthal like in the player base will mooooove along as well.

Can only cross the fingers and hope.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#627 - 2013-03-08 21:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
LHA Tarawa wrote:
And who is asking for releases that focus on improving life for carebears. All I'm saying is that if a release focuses on making it easir to f' with carebears, subscriptions will plummet. If a nerf is made to high sec that makes it difficult or impossible for carebears to get enough ISK to fund ships, subscriptions will plummet.
First question: Incursion lobbyists, anti-ganking advocates, pro-wardec evasion advocates, Trebor Daedow, Ripard Teg, etc. Nobody is suggesting that anyone makes it 'impossible for carebears to get enough ISK to fund ships and subs and what have you - people are suggesting that the place to do it for the vast majority of PvE activty should not be incetivized to be done in highsec. You're the one claiming that makes it 'impossible'.


Quote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
The relevant party in this scenario are the players that actually buy PLEX - without their injection of cash into the game. What do people buy PLEX for? I imagine the heavy majority is to engage in PvP without PvE, as you say. So let's help EVE's financial status by ignoring isk farming non-entities and cater to the customers pouring cash into the game. Makes sense.

BOTH parties are equally relevant in this synergistic relationship. If people that want to grind ISK to buy PLEX to fund their accounts, can't get that ISK, then there is no one for the PLEX seller (buyer with RW money) to sell to, and then he won't buy it with real in the first place.

That is, of course, you really want to turn it into pay-to-win where you just buy ISK, instead of paying to fund the account of the person that will grind the ISK for you

Next thing you know... who needs those miners and manufactures anyway. Just make it a micro-transaction to buy a ship from CCP, and poof, ship suddenly exists from nothing.
As you say yourself, your part in terms of CCP's fiscal stability can be supplanted with an NPC sell order. It's not like CCP isn't manipulating PLEX value as we speak. RL money cannot be created so easily however. So they're hardly 'equal'. The virtue of not replacing you with a sell order is that, in theory, you would be interacting within an MMO in the process of grinding in game and creating content for the people actually putting money into the game. How is encouraging interaction in this context, as I advocate, against this?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#628 - 2013-03-08 21:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind CSM candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Right, because sov null is centered around structures with large EHP with large gaps of time to amass reinforcements, it is proven best practice to send as many guys as you can at the structure at the set time.
Renting is proven best practice because free markets and industry are not viable in a primary resource extraction economy, so fees are charged for access to the resource (in lieu of time spent in fleets). Encouraging a null secondary economic zone fixes this. Fixing the null industry problem changes the conclusion that renting is proven best practice.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#629 - 2013-03-08 21:35:17 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind CSM candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Right, because sov null is centered around structures with large EHP with large gaps of time to amass reinforcements, it is proven best practice to send as many guys as you can at the structure at the set time.
Renting is proven best practice because free markets and industry are not viable in a primary resource extraction economy, so fees are charged for access to the resource (in lieu of time spent in fleets). Encouraging a null secondary economic zone fixes this. Fixing the null industry problem changes the conclusion that renting is proven best practice.

There you have it, nullsec, home of:
SHOOTAN STRUCTARRR
BLOBBAN BEETCHES
RATTAN~
JUMP FREIGHTAN

Join us today in Deklein.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#630 - 2013-03-08 21:35:59 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind CSM candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Right, because sov null is centered around structures with large EHP with large gaps of time to amass reinforcements, it is proven best practice to send as many guys as you can at the structure at the set time.
Renting is proven best practice because free markets and industry are not viable in a primary resource extraction economy, so fees are charged for access to the resource (in lieu of time spent in fleets). Encouraging a null secondary economic zone fixes this. Fixing the null industry problem changes the conclusion that renting is proven best practice.


Null Sec doesnt have to be all things to everyone that lives there. There is more isk in null sec then any other area of the game by a large margin. Why, in the name of balance, is it a good idea to INCREASE that variable even more?

Want to be an industrialist, head to high sec. Want to mine moons and rare roids, head to null sec.

Its just self entitled null sec dwellers who want everything at hands reach.

Its childlike and its sad.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#631 - 2013-03-08 21:36:23 UTC
step back while i get my wolfpax ready
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#632 - 2013-03-08 21:37:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

They point fingers at high sec, they point fingers at CCP but they never, never, never take responsibility for the way they made their sand castle in this sand box. It's cowardly .
Only children make moral judgements when considering proven best pratices within the limitations of game mechanics.

Proven best practices within game mechanics... have a gazillion friends with ubber powerful fleets to crush anyone. Control vast areas of sov null space... then charge rent for solar systems based on the potential profitability of the system.

When these rents cause null to be less profitable than high sec, come to the forums and blame it all on high sec. Then, put your support behind CSM candidates that will push for high sec nerfs... which will never happen since CCP's objectives are different from yours.

Right, because sov null is centered around structures with large EHP with large gaps of time to amass reinforcements, it is proven best practice to send as many guys as you can at the structure at the set time.
Renting is proven best practice because free markets and industry are not viable in a primary resource extraction economy, so fees are charged for access to the resource (in lieu of time spent in fleets). Encouraging a null secondary economic zone fixes this. Fixing the null industry problem changes the conclusion that renting is proven best practice.

There you have it, nullsec, home of:
SHOOTAN STRUCTARRR
BLOBBAN BEETCHES
RATTAN~
JUMP FREIGHTAN

Join us today in Deklein.


Selling proceeds of moon goo mining on the RMT market.

Dont forget that one.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#633 - 2013-03-08 21:39:21 UTC
rmting my scandium riches so i can fill my vespa gas tank up half way
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#634 - 2013-03-08 21:40:45 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
[

What really needs to happen is CCP needs to break up the big blue donut. I would be willing to bet that null sec will be substantially changed long before any nerf comes to high sec.

The tears will be glorious coming from these null sec care bears as their isk faucets dry up and they actually have to work to hold onto systems.



I'm not sure there is a big blue donut.... any more than CCCP and USA were a global blue donut during the Cold War.

Dang sure there is nothing CCP could do about it anyway. CCP can't force me to fight, and they sure as heck can't force one coalition to try to take sov space from another coalition. If two coalitions agree to not invade each other with nuke bomb fleets where both risk losing evrything, and only have limited fights in 3rd party space... well, what is it that you expect CCP to do about that?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#635 - 2013-03-08 21:43:36 UTC
Unthinkables is an alliance with under 700 peeps with no allies that holds more space then most CFC alliances.
The problem is lack of incentive to go to the trouble of taking space, not that retaining space is 'too easy' or something.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#636 - 2013-03-08 21:46:02 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Null Sec doesnt have to be all things to everyone that lives there. There is more isk in null sec then any other area of the game by a large margin....


...Want to be an industrialist, head to high sec.


lol
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#637 - 2013-03-08 21:48:59 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
[

What really needs to happen is CCP needs to break up the big blue donut. I would be willing to bet that null sec will be substantially changed long before any nerf comes to high sec.

The tears will be glorious coming from these null sec care bears as their isk faucets dry up and they actually have to work to hold onto systems.



I'm not sure there is a big blue donut.... any more than CCCP and USA were a global blue donut during the Cold War.

Dang sure there is nothing CCP could do about it anyway. CCP can't force me to fight, and they sure as heck can't force one coalition to try to take sov space from another coalition. If two coalitions agree to not invade each other with nuke bomb fleets where both risk losing everything, and only have limited fights in 3rd party space... well, what is it that you expect CCP to do about that?


They can change how sovereignty works and how its maintained. That would do a lot to draw out more smaller corps and alliances into null sec. I mean, thats what the current null sec players want right? More life and interesting things in null sec.

The only problem is they dont want things to change on their end. They like their null care bear lifestyle. They just want to force the horde of high sec players to have to find their way into their waiting cross hairs or into renting form their alliances.

If these intellectually dishonest null sec players thast complain here really cared about null sec and the game they would be pushing for substantial changes to null and sovereignty that everyone KNOWS are needed instead of wasting time complaining about mining barge EHP and high sec carebears.

The motives are clear as day. CCP is full of intelligent people as well and they see this for what is as well.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#638 - 2013-03-08 21:55:17 UTC
if everyone knows they are needed, why bother making posts about it
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#639 - 2013-03-08 21:59:45 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
They can change how sovereignty works and how its maintained. That would do a lot to draw out more smaller corps and alliances into null sec. I mean, thats what the current null sec players want right? More life and interesting things in null sec.


Changing how sov works is NOT going to break up the blue donut (that I don't believe exists), nor would it prevent the mega power blocks from crushing anyone that is not aligned with them that thinks of moving into their area.

How would the be able to force their current renters to pay rent, if anyone could just move in without paying rent?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#640 - 2013-03-08 22:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Sariah Kion wrote:

The only problem is they dont want things to change on their end. They like their null care bear lifestyle. They just want to force the horde of high sec players to have to find their way into their waiting cross hairs or into renting form their alliances.
Wait we're going to force them from carebearing in highsec... into our carebear nullsec crosshairs where they will be carebearing and evidently we too will also be carebearing, even though the delination between 'us' and 'them' would be effectively nonexistent. What if we kill one of our carebears in nullsec because we confused it for a highsec carebear forced into a nullsec alliance and using nullsec space? What then?