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Best way to deal with Level 4 Missions' Elite Webbing frigs?

Author
Capt Amer'ca
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-08 15:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Amer'ca
Hello all,

Below is my level 4 mission blitzer Tengu. Im having a hard time with webbing frigates. Even when im burning away from them, they still catch up because my missiles hit them for crap. Last night I had 4 of them on me at once due to agro on warp-in of the mission.

I was wondering what is the best way to deal with them? Target painter, Webber, precision missiles?


Swap ammo and hardeners depending on mission.
Yes I can afford to lose this ship three times over.

[Tengu, PVE Tengu]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Domination Shield Boost Amplifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
stoicfaux
#2 - 2013-03-08 15:28:53 UTC
Precision missiles and TP should be fine.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#3 - 2013-03-08 15:55:03 UTC
you should be pummeling elite frigs if you switch to precisions, get the relevant missile hardwires for TNP and GMP, and train those skills 5. You can also switch a lowslot for a midslot and fit another painter if you want.
Capt Amer'ca
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-08 17:03:19 UTC
I have these plugged in right now.


Slot 7: HARDWIRING - ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZMC1000 (+5% missile damage)

Slot 8: HARDWIRING - ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZMA1000 (-5% explosion radius)

Slot 9: HARDWIRING - ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZMS1000 (+5% explosion velocity)

Slot 10: HARDWIRING - ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZMM1000 (+5% RoF)


-Gonna give the precision missiles a try later on. Thanks for the help.
Orlacc
#5 - 2013-03-08 17:26:11 UTC
You have a lot of isk but no idea what you are doing? Haven't seen that before.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-03-08 21:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
TPs are for large rats and torps, not frigs and hmls. You paint something very small,and it's still very small. Waste of a slot. stick with rigors.

Don't shoot furies at frigs, it's bad before the missile nerf, and it's worse now. The real nerf isn't the 10% direct dmg nerf that hmls got, it's the exp radius and exp velocity that many missiles, including hmls, got. Why CCP thought Rage Torps needed even larger base exp radius then they had, I'll never know.Roll

Don't use precision. They suck. Use faction heavy, they hit frigs well enough and actually do decent dmg.

Remember to switch to em ammo for em rats. Going without kinetic bonus is bad, hitting em rats with bonused kinetic missiles is worse.
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#7 - 2013-03-08 22:00:58 UTC
I think you'll find precision missiles just fine. Sure the hit a little less, but with better velocity and radius than the faction ammo. The main problem is distance. Their flight time sucks, so if you want to catch all of the frigs before they get into range the faction missiles might be better.
That said, I have a similar setup as you and don't have a problem killing the frigs before they cause me heartburn with regular heavies. I use precisions if there are more than a few I need to clean out. I don't use a webber or TP. Then again, my missile skills are all L4/L5.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#8 - 2013-03-08 22:05:41 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

Don't use precision. They suck. Use faction heavy, they hit frigs well enough and actually do decent dmg.


assuming the reduced range isn't an issue, i thought CCP fixed this. precision do less damage than faction, but they now don't do less damage than t1. I haven't done the calculation, but I assumed at this point that in a straight applied dps race with no reloading or other rats to account for, that precision would have now edged out faction for applied dps to frigates.
Derek Wiildstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-03-08 23:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Derek Wiildstar
After the HML changes I found that precision missiles allowed me to kill elite frigs faster than pre-nerf on my tengu. They may have nerfed the top end damage, but holy crap things are so much easier with the new precision missiles.
stoicfaux
#10 - 2013-03-08 23:33:25 UTC
Missile re-balance -> spreadsheet

patch notes
Quote:
Weapons and Ammo

Powergrid on all Heavy Assault Missile Launchers has been reduced by 10%
Light missile changes:
* Explosion velocity reduced from 50 to 40
* Damage has been increased by 10% (rounded to the closest digit)
* Light missile launcher fitting requirements have been reduced by 2 powergrid and 4 CPU

Heavy missile changes:
* Base flight time reduced by 35% (to 6.5 seconds) for tech1 variants
* Base velocity increased by 14.6% (to 4300m/s)
* Damage has been decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
* Explosion radius increased by 12%

Tech 2 missile changes:
* Ship velocity and signature radius have been removed from all tech2 missiles
* Precision missiles: increased bonus to explosion velocity, damage has been increased to match tech1 missiles
* Fury missiles: damage bonus increased, flight time reduced, penalties to explosion radius and velocity have been unified among all sizes of missiles
* Rage missiles: damage bonus increased, changed flight time to match tech1 missiles, and penalties to missile velocity, explosion velocity and explosion radius have been unified among all sizes of missiles


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-03-08 23:42:28 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
TPs are for large rats and torps, not frigs and hmls. You paint something very small,and it's still very small. Waste of a slot. stick with rigors.


Don't use precision. They suck. Use faction heavy, they hit frigs well enough and actually do decent dmg.



Wierd ...

i find webbing and TP'ing elite frigs to be very effective
especially when combined with precision ammo.






Target Painters make the signature radius of the painted ship .. --> Larger
This makes them easier for missiles to hit.

Just a FYI as you seem to not understand the mechanism.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-03-09 01:54:27 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
TPs are for large rats and torps, not frigs and hmls. You paint something very small,and it's still very small. Waste of a slot. stick with rigors.


Don't use precision. They suck. Use faction heavy, they hit frigs well enough and actually do decent dmg.



Wierd ...

i find webbing and TP'ing elite frigs to be very effective
especially when combined with precision ammo.






Target Painters make the signature radius of the painted ship .. --> Larger
This makes them easier for missiles to hit.

Just a FYI as you seem to not understand the mechanism.


Math question for you: What's 30% of a frig rat with sig of 22? Oh that's right, 6.6. Your fury with exp radius of 250 just got half an extra dps.Lol

Learn the mechanism: TP and rigor don't modify the same values.
Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
#13 - 2013-03-09 07:41:29 UTC
OP, as indicated' you are using the wrong ammo. Switch to precision or (what I do), is use faction ammo only. No need for webs or TP.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#14 - 2013-03-09 23:50:32 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
TPs are for large rats and torps, not frigs and hmls. You paint something very small,and it's still very small. Waste of a slot. stick with rigors.


Don't use precision. They suck. Use faction heavy, they hit frigs well enough and actually do decent dmg.



Wierd ...

i find webbing and TP'ing elite frigs to be very effective
especially when combined with precision ammo.






Target Painters make the signature radius of the painted ship .. --> Larger
This makes them easier for missiles to hit.

Just a FYI as you seem to not understand the mechanism.


Math question for you: What's 30% of a frig rat with sig of 22? Oh that's right, 6.6. Your fury with exp radius of 250 just got half an extra dps.Lol

Learn the mechanism: TP and rigor don't modify the same values.


That's 30% added to the base. Moron.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-10 00:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: EvEa Deva
Faction ammo, it has better range as well.
Capt Amer'ca
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-10 04:55:44 UTC
Faction ammo is absolutely melting these guys away.

What should I replace the target painter with? I don't need extra tank.
stoicfaux
#17 - 2013-03-10 05:21:30 UTC
Capt Amer'ca wrote:
Faction ammo is absolutely melting these guys away.

What should I replace the target painter with? I don't need extra tank.

Either a sensor booster for faster locking, or swap out the Amplification Node for Adaptive Shielding and an Auto Targeting System II for an additional 3 sensor locks (don't activate the ATS since you just want the additional targets and not the auto-locking.)

A web would be spiffy for spider drones.

A large shield extender would be nice (to discourage suicide ganking,) but you don't have the grid unless you add an implant.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-03-10 11:39:08 UTC
Precision Missiles work great. Those who say otherwise didn't use em for ages.
Faction ammo might work but still is expensiver.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#19 - 2013-03-11 18:19:19 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Precision Missiles work great. Those who say otherwise didn't use em for ages.
Faction ammo might work but still is expensiver.


Depends on how you are getting the faction ammo. If you are buying it on the market it is expensive, but if you are using LP it is cheap.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-03-11 19:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: EvEa Deva
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Precision Missiles work great. Those who say otherwise didn't use em for ages.
Faction ammo might work but still is expensiver.


You are 100% right about most people don't use them due to being oldschool, Ill give them a try but.

I use LP to make faction so not expensiver Roll
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