These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Game question - rant...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gronn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-28 17:10:31 UTC
I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game ‘Privateer’ had… this game is supposed to be ‘sandbox’ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I can’t put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I won’t get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel faster… Why don’t we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldn’t put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldn’t at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldn’t add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?

It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…
Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-10-28 17:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor
So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective?
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-28 17:14:18 UTC
Human behaviour to spoil everything and create "the most efficient" combo prevent such features. Once all people become responsible for an community/taking the consequences of their action into equation than it would be possible. But again if people become such there will be no need for Economy circle-jerk, governments and politicians.

So i guess it falls down to science fiction.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-28 17:18:59 UTC
Gronn wrote:
I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game ‘Privateer’ had… this game is supposed to be ‘sandbox’ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I can’t put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I won’t get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel faster… Why don’t we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldn’t put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldn’t at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldn’t add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?

It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…


Why is everyone so stuck on the sandbox thing? Eve isn't a sandbox. I'm sorry but CCP dictates what the **** you do. That's it, sorry. Want to put 5 MWD on your scorpion and use them all at once? You can't. Want to put a station inside your station? You can't. Want to blow up concord? You can't. Do you want to put 10 thousand little jet cans around a gate? You can't.

Eve is not a sandbox. It's certainly open-ended, but please stop calling it a sandbox.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-28 17:19:01 UTC
Gronn wrote:
I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game ‘Privateer’ had… this game is supposed to be ‘sandbox’ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I can’t put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I won’t get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel faster… Why don’t we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldn’t put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldn’t at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldn’t add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?

It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…


Game balance trumps your needs and desires. Deal with it.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Luxi Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-28 17:19:54 UTC
Gronn wrote:

It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…

Real life is a bit like that, we can do what we like as long as it's within the constraints of society.
In Eve we live within the constraint of the major factions who produce the technology and such for us to use.

Even a completely anarchist environment will have natural constraints. Say for instance we lived in an IRL anarchy - you wouldn't be able to make a car into a tank, in much the same way you can't make a frigate into a battlecruiser.

At the end of the day, everything has been put in place to try and maximize our enjoyment whilst keeping as much diversity as possible. And most people are happy with it like this. Although you're more then welcome to develop your own sandbox game if you wish.
Tanya Fox
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-10-28 17:23:05 UTC
Igualmentedos wrote:
Gronn wrote:
I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game ‘Privateer’ had… this game is supposed to be ‘sandbox’ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I can’t put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I won’t get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel faster… Why don’t we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldn’t put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldn’t at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldn’t add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?

It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…


Why is everyone so stuck on the sandbox thing? Eve isn't a sandbox. I'm sorry but CCP dictates what the **** you do. That's it, sorry. Want to put 5 MWD on your scorpion and use them all at once? You can't. Want to put a station inside your station? You can't. Want to blow up concord? You can't. Do you want to put 10 thousand little jet cans around a gate? You can't.

Eve is not a sandbox. It's certainly open-ended, but please stop calling it a sandbox.



Exactly, at least you get it.


+1
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#8 - 2011-10-28 17:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
because if you want a game where everyone flies the same thing and combat is resolved by ping speed and spamming M1 you should look elsewhere.

there should be no swiss army knife ship, for anyone
each has its pros, cons, strengths and weaknesses. It's called having a variety and some sort of balance even if it is rock paper scissors.

its what creates good fleet comps and makes the player decide if any course of action is the best course of action, it ain't BF2, don't try and play it like it is

and to the non-sandbox guys, even a sandbox has borders and some physical laws
you can't build a castle with dry sand, you can try all you want to, but its just not going to work out
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#9 - 2011-10-28 17:23:44 UTC
All sand boxes, by definition, have boundries... what you are describing is a desert. Smile

Why can't I have a forklift that also preforms like a Formula 1 racer?
Why can't I have an oil tanker that also doubles as a jet ski?
Why can't I eat my cake and have it too?

Everything in life is a trade off, EVE does the best it can (within the constraints of modern technology) to bring that experience to you in a different setting.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#10 - 2011-10-28 17:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
What it really boils down to is.

"What good is freedom if its meaningless?"

For example the first assisn's creed had an incredibly boring open world verses open world games like oblivion IV which had an extremly meaningful open world to the point you forget the reason why you started this journey.

Eve is trying to prevent the meaningless freedom syndrome from fully forming. Though this does restrict player creativity on ship builds at least it keeps things in focus when it comes to ships the most interactive thing in eve clients to the player is very significant. Though yes it can all be balanced in the it really doesnt force exploration into other hulls to try new ships out to find a new favorite and that is alot mor imporant than slapping a capitol ship launcher on a raven.

Until content and side tracking stuff can catch up I would not like to see free form ships at all.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#11 - 2011-10-28 17:32:37 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
What it really boils down to is.

"What good is freedom if its meaningless?"

For example the first assisn's creed had an incredibly boring open world verses open world games like oblivion IV which had an extremly meaningful open world.

Eve is trying to prevent the meaningless freedom syndrome from fully forming. Though this does restrict player creativity on ship builds at least it keeps things in focus when it comes to ships the most interactive thing in eve clients to the player is very significant. Though yes it can all be balanced in the it really doesnt force exploration into other hulls to try new ships out to find a new favorite and that is alot mor imporant than slapping a capitol ship launcher on a raven.


To put a different spin on this, perhaps George Orwell had it right.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

War is peace.

Welcome to EVE. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-10-28 17:38:12 UTC
I must admit that the potential for ship customization in EVE doesn't live up to my expectations, even if it's really good.
I hate the false limitations like slots and 900000 MW modules that take 100 MW on their intended ship. It's also boring that you can only ever fit 8 small turrets on a 1 km long battleship, or that you can't decide to lose a few turrets in exchange for more armor.

A counterexample would be MechWarrior 2 on PC. Now THAT was customization. The only limits were mass and heat generation. It was possible to fit a gankmech that would alpha strike like a madman then turn off for 30 seconds to dissipate heat.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#13 - 2011-10-28 17:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Krios Ahzek wrote:
I must admit that the potential for ship customization in EVE doesn't live up to my expectations, even if it's really good.
I hate the false limitations like slots and 900000 MW modules that take 100 MW on their intended ship. It's also boring that you can only ever fit 8 small turrets on a 1 km long battleship, or that you can't decide to lose a few turrets in exchange for more armor.

A counterexample would be MechWarrior 2 on PC. Now THAT was customization. The only limits were mass and heat generation. It was possible to fit a gankmech that would alpha strike like a madman then turn off for 30 seconds to dissipate heat.


Speaking of mech warrior 2, mech warrior 5 bringing it back with pernament damage being possible forcing the installing of newer parts as older one wear out.

As for limitations I know they're arbitary and all but they're really meant to help ships stand out. maybe they could have done it the other way around make ships that specialize.

I mean lore wise its easier to explain with computer software.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2011-10-28 17:42:06 UTC
Igualmentedos wrote:
Want to blow up concord? You can't.


Actually, if you play the Angel Sound mission arc...

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-28 17:42:09 UTC
Gronn wrote:
It’s a ‘sandbox’ as long as you conform to their preset standards…



again with this.. its the real world as long as you obey the laws of physics.... you do not "conform" by choice...you conform because you live.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-28 17:44:34 UTC
Here, I am playing in this sandbox, and I want to build a floating castle. Damnit, it falls down every time I try. But it should work, I'm in a sandbox, right!?
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#17 - 2011-10-28 18:28:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
All sand boxes, by definition, have boundries... what you are describing is a desert. Smile

Why can't I have a forklift that also preforms like a Formula 1 racer?
Why can't I have an oil tanker that also doubles as a jet ski?
Why can't I eat my cake and have it too?

Everything in life is a trade off, EVE does the best it can (within the constraints of modern technology) to bring that experience to you in a different setting.


1. Force = mass x acceleration.
2. Pretty much the same as #1, except it's on water instead of a solid surface.
3. Someone left it out in the rain.

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-28 18:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Opertone
oh lord, what is sand box?

sandbox, this?

you talk about mysterious sand box, the complaint is also mysterious and uncertain.

please, tell us what you want eve to be, focus more on the subject.

edit: tell us what you want to find in the sandbox, when you dig real deep.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Gronn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-28 20:20:49 UTC
Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:
So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective?


Really? So use a pickup truck as a race car or a Mac truck as a dragster doesn't happen?
T' Elk
Strategically Bad
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2011-10-28 20:28:49 UTC
Gronn wrote:
Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:
So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective?


Really? So use a pickup truck as a race car or a Mac truck as a dragster doesn't happen?

Pickups and larger trucks have the mechanical capability to be used in racing, but a rake simply physically cannot do what a shovel does.

~Badposter since FOOOOREEEEEVAAAAAR~ I come back after 2 years to THIS? ~Now 4 years apparently
12Next page