EVE New Citizens Q&A

This.

An incursion is not a level 4 mission.

Unless you find a good corp that knows how do handle them well, you will most likely find yourself in a pod or you won't have much ISK after an hour+ of incursion because you aren't dealing enough dps (As a fleet i mean).

The higher the risks and difficulty the greater the reward. Thus incursion grant you great rewards, but believe me when i say that the path to run them well is hard and long.

Mining is the safest and easiest way to make isks , you are sure to get what you are spending your time for. Easier, thus many choose to mine and the supply beats the demand, incomes are driven by the market. You still make isks out of it and you can live just by mining, even if you don't get that much.

Loosing a ship to a suicide gank can be avoided provided you find a safe location (Use your starmap and check recent kills in the highsec system), check local and use your directional scanner. When you go to a belt, move away from the warp to 0 location and get to at least 150 km of it, bookmark the spot, and next time you come mining warp to it and stay there. if a suicide gank wraps in, he will be too far away to even lock you, giving plenty of time to warp out (You should always have your ship aligned/stop to a safe location when you mine)

When a suicide gank arrive, he will need to get at 13Km from you to scramble your ship. If at 0 km warp he finds himself 100 Kms from you, you can even taunt him while you are calmly warpping out of danger.

Suicide gank victims (for miners anyway) are usually unexperienced players and 8/10 of the time, a bot.

As for rats, get some tanking on your ship and take combat drones with you (There is enough space in your drone bay to have both mining and combat drones). If rats pop-up, take out your drones and let them clean the mess while you keep mining. Problem solved.

It's clearly not dangerous enough to make prices rise significantly. The only way to make "real" money mining is to heavily multibox, so that you're running 4-6 Hulks, plus an Orca, at once. In Nullsec you too make make 100 mill an hour this way. The re

I'm sorry you don't like facts, but not liking them won't change them. If you don't like the results of what you're doing, looking at changing the way you do it might well turn out to be more productive than complaining. Just a thought.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

I have so got to book mark this thread and point to it next time I'm in an argument with Mission Runners about how lame mining is. I've never seen so many people defending my preferred profession.



Now ... for those who haven't figured it out - the OP is clearly a troll. For those who don't know how a troll operates - read this thread. For those who don't actually know what a troll is - a troll is someone who posts an incendiary thread for the purpose of getting others to respond. The troll doesn't actually believe what he is posting - he is posting merely to get other people to waste their time responding. The troll is spending his time keeping the thread going - but - he is having fun giggling at all the people wasting their time because of HIS thread. Thus trolls are pitiful losers who actually don't have anything better to do than waste someone else's time - which makes being a troll it's own punishment ...

The problem with combating trolls is that you really can't prove that they are trolls - but then again - they can't prove that they aren't. Their biggest edge - and the reason people who know they are trolls will post in a troll thread - is that new people who don't know any better might believe the troll if someone doesn't set them straight.


So ... for any new players still reading this thread - so they don't get confused by the OP's apparent lack of understanding of the game ... I'll reinforce some points which for the most part have already been made ... just in case anyone needs these points to be reinforced ...


1) What you get for mining is controlled by the player centric economy of EVE. As said - things are only really valuable if they are scarce. Make them easy to obtain - and their value will plunge. There is no way to "fix" this. The players control it - not CCP. The players control it as a mass - based on their spending patterns - not any intent or scheme. So - there is no mechanic that could be applied to change it. Things cost what they cost because of the way some players in this game spend their money and others provide goods for money to be spent on.

2) An Orca - is a support ship. Not a miner. Using an Orca to mine - is a complete mis-use of the ship. Don't spend 400 million ISK to do that. If you only have one account - use a Hulk (or a Covetor until you can afford a Hulk). For new people - what you want to do when thinking about the purpose of a ship - is look at the things it gets a bonus for.. Now - compare an Orca to a Hulk. Note the role bonus for the Hulk. See how the Orca does not have the same thing? T2 Crystal fit Strip Miners are going to totally out produce any thing you could put on an Orca. You could probably mine more in an Osprey than an Orca.

3) As pointed out - Belt Rats are an additional source of income to a miner - not a threat - as long as you pay attention to what you're doing. If you don't want to pay attention - you can mine in 1.0 or .9 space where there are no rats. Also - note above that increase in resistances for the Hulk - and the vastly superior inherent tank it has compared to a Covetor. THAT is the primary reason for getting a Hulk instead of a Covetor. The Covetor can use all the same miners as the Hulk and costs vastly less - it just has a smaller hold and much ... much weaker tank.

4) If you're worried about being ganked ... mine in Mission Space in a quiet system and your chances of being ganked are very ... very slim. That does not mean that some one couldn't scan you down - they could - it means that if there are no Level IV Mission Agents in the system - the chances of anyone coming along to scan it with combat probes are ... very, very slim. The people who do use combat scanner probes to scan down ships - are Ninja Salvagers looking to salvage the wrecks left by Level IV mission runners. No Level IV Mission Runners - probably no Ninja's. I have been mining Mission Space for over 4 years - and NEVER had another player intrude on my mining. The chief disadvantage of mining Mission Space - is that you're limited to the ore you're likely to find - but there is a reason Chribba favors Veldspar. You can produce the most ore in the least amount of time - because ore is sold by the unit - but mined by the Meter Cubed - and Veldspar has the best ratio.

5) The chief reason I prefer mining to Mission Running - is that ... I prefer to decide what I want to do - instead of having to jump through some NPC's hoops. Mission Running is what most people do - in most MMO's - it's just called "Quests" else where. I - personally - can't think of anything more boring - that running the same missions - over and over and over again. But that's just me - if someone else finds running "Quests" (I use that word to make a point) - then do that. Now, I do run missions for standings ... but I don't like doing it ...

6) As to where the minerals come from ... a very large percentage of the minerals in this game do come from Mission Runners melting down their cheap loot - because there are many more runners than miners.


To the OP ... on the slim possibility that you are actually not a troll - you've no idea what you are talking about. The other posters in this thread - do. Pay attention and learn - or shut up and go run missions if you want more money. If you were actually a veteran of a bunch of other MMO's - you should know that insisting that something be changed - just because you don't like it - is a complete waste of time. If lots and lots of other players were whining about something - that would work - but if you don't already see lots and lots of such posts you're just being silly to continue.

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After my last post in this thread, I was beginning to suspect the same thing. But then I saw this little gem over the F&I section.

I think we are dealing with a bona fide ignoramus with "entitlement issues" here.

edit: my link-fu fails.

Well - at least there he was posting in the right forum ...

I mean ... most of the ideas in F&I are never going to see the light of day ... so what the hell.



The thing is - all that sounds like to me - is another troll but in all fairness,I didn't read the whole thread. A good troll has to sound like he's really sincere or people will just laugh at his failed troll and move on. And - of course - there are people out thee who are so obsessed with their own view of the universe ... they might act like trolls, even if trolling were not there intent. Of course ... this is just the type of person a troll is pretending to be ...



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Haven't you thougt about combining some interesting professions?

What i want to say is, why you don't enjoy flying around in your hulk and mine some rocks apart while on the other hand (or in case the other monitor) you can watch your planet side extraction facillity doin' theire work?

If you think mining needs an upgrade (and it NEEDS an update...) why do you don't spend just a little skill time on Planetary Interaction - while ccp hopefully works on that new -blingbling- mining upgrade.

Actually there are just 5 Skillz to learn, that's in case 4.352.000 SP and you have ALL skillz on lvl5.

With this low effort you could maximize your income in a way that supplemented mining in an new industrial-profession way.

Iv'e done exactly the same with my Mining AND Industrial Account and it works pretty damn well.

You say that you don't have the chance (by only mining) to recieve your goal to build ships for the PvP/PvIncursion People - why than don't spread your offers over a larger market?

For example you could establish a 'robotics' production chain - planet side and harvest the ISK you recieve from it WHILE goin' on stare at walls of rock for prolonged periods of time :) (some ppl call it mining)

Doing so you have two steady incomes with not much more skilling time needed.

Edit: okay... mining isn't industrialism ....

The only disconnect in this logic here is that mining is more risky than L4 mission running. Are either of them particularly risky? No, but I certainly feel more threatened kicking around in an exhumer in a belt rather than pew pewing stupid NPCs who fly at me in a straight line. Maybe that's just because I suicide gank miners, so when I'm mining I fear it will come back to bite me in the ass.

C'est la vie.

For any new people needing clarification ...

Technically ... the 3 original Career Paths being Business, Military and Industry ... both Mining & Manufacturing fell under the heading of Industry ... but ... *shrug* ... the distinctions and the points they make above are valid. When you hear an EVE veteran say they are an Industrialist - they mostly mean they are a Manufacturer - whereas if someone says they're a Miner - they mean they are a Miner.

You'll also sometimes hear Business guys make a distinction between Trading and Hauling. What they mean here is that if all they do is trade - they are a Trader - but if they haul goods to market and then sell them - they are a Hauler. This distinction is much less often made than that between "industrialist" and Miner. Here - when someone just says hauling - they are mostly referring to people who Haul as a career choice - or - are hauling for a miner, the distinction here being that the former is Hauling goods to the trade hub to sell, while the later is hauling ore to the station then going back for more.


The other thing is that most of your "Industrialists" are really Traders as well. It is Trading that turns things from goods into ISK.

The Production Process is:

Mine > Refine > Produce > Transport > Trade*

*Trade being the only one that isn't optional.

To switch analogies - during the various Gold Rushes - the people who made all the money - were the Traders who sold goods to the miners.

Of course - Trading is where the real money is.



Thus - while the Military Career, which covers PVE & PVP is largely self sufficient (people run Missions to fund PVP) and Traders can be - Industry is very much coupled to Business. Whether you're a Miner or a Manufacturer ... you have to sell your stuff to somebody to get money for it - the game won't just give it to you the way it does with Mission Runners.

If you think about it - someone who owns a Automobile Factory IRL - is both a Business Man and an Industrialist.



One of the Terms you'll hear bandied about a lot in discussions about Industry/Business - is Opportunity Cost. This is the cost you pay for having done what you did - instead of doing something else.

For Veteran players who have established themselves as Manufacturers and Traders - they don't usually mine anything - because mining is a labor intensive activity that takes up playing time they could be devoting to running their business. They are making enough money off of their Manufacturing Business - that they can afford to just buy the minerals they need - instead of producing them themselves.

For newer players ... if they are interested in manufacturing - they may not have the option of just buying their minerals and hence mine their own, as they have more time than they do money.

For those who do make a lot of money off of mining ... they are mostly doing it with multiple accounts. Mining and Manufacturing both benefit strongly from having multiple accounts. The more ships you have - the more ore you can pull in - and the more Engineers you've got - the more jobs you can have running simultaneously or the more Planets you can have PI Facilities on.

There are people who use multiple accounts for PVE & PVP - but not the way Miners and Manufacturers do. In each case - even if you own the equipment to have a number of EVE Clients running at the same time - you as a player will more rapidly reach the point of diminishing returns trying to control multiple combat ships - than mining ships or Engineers.


*shrug*

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