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Should nullsec industry > hisec industry?

First post First post
Author
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#361 - 2013-03-07 01:58:42 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I have little experience with Outposts

This will be important for the next quote.
Frying Doom wrote:
outposts already give a fair few bonuses, docking being one of them.

That you think being able to dock in an outpost that you own is a bonus really says it all.

The NPC outposts have the best "bonuses" then? So er, I guess players shouldn't be building their own infrastructure....

Oh right, HIGHSEC is the place to be, the NPCs have the infrastructure all ready for you !


That infrastructure is just asking for a DBRB fleet to come cruising through.

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Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#362 - 2013-03-07 01:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Kador
Frying Doom wrote:
more stuff I disagree with


FD, so far you've called me risk averse in this topic and lazy in another for expressing my opinions. Neither is accurate. And I own a POS. I don't own a dozen of them and do not have POS's stationed across known space. Which is never going to happen.

You again write that boosting manufacturing returns at a high sec POS is some kind of reward for owning one despite countless examples of why tethering a dynamic industry to a stationary object is not beneficial. (Stop doing me favors!) It would be a logistical nightmare for the same exact reasons cited in this topic explaining why it's a nightmare for null players.

Debating whether everything I've invested into my gameplay for the past 14 months is going to be made pointless does frustrate me as the consequences are potentially game-changing to an unacceptable degree. But I play this game because its fun. Piloting a freighter isn't. In fact, it's my least-favorite activity in the game. So tieing my least-favorite activity in the game to my primary source of income isn't something I'm ever going to be a vocal supporter of. How dumb would that be? This change would at best, make my game vastly less enjoyable and at worst end it entirely.

So until the black day comes to pass ushering in changes which ruin my game, I'm going to be a vocal opponent.

For me, there is no other option.

It's not personal. So if my opposition offends anyone, I apologize in advance.

YK
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#363 - 2013-03-07 02:01:50 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

So just like portals in WoW.

So any other WoW like changes you would like to propose?


What's a portal in WoW? You seem to have experience with that game, I don't.

Yes I do, having played most of the popular MMOs for years all the way back to text MUDS in the 80's.

So that concerns me more as you are obviously unfamiliar with other MMOs, specifically the worlds most famous and the one with the highest subscriber level.


I also have started with MUDs and have played a lot of MMOs.
I just bailed out of those that sucked balls, Post-vanilla WoW being one of them.

I played mostly PvP MMOs. Where there's no crap like hi sec, nor self inflicted paper wounds like living at a POS in null sec or WH (which I had both to do).
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#364 - 2013-03-07 02:07:43 UTC
Given the risk vs reward relationship the order should be WH industry > Low Industry > Null=Hi industry.

But my guess is CCP will keep things the way they are. Why not? It seems the formula is working.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#365 - 2013-03-07 02:08:03 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I have little experience with Outposts

This will be important for the next quote.
Frying Doom wrote:
outposts already give a fair few bonuses, docking being one of them.

That you think being able to dock in an outpost that you own is a bonus really says it all.

The NPC outposts have the best "bonuses" then? So er, I guess players shouldn't be building their own infrastructure....

Oh right, HIGHSEC is the place to be, the NPCs have the infrastructure all ready for you !


What if we put stations in sov null with docking right and service usage limited only to the aliance holding SOV in the system it is in?

I realise it's a huge middle finger to the whole idea of building your own base and stuff but isn't that all considered a huge pain in the ass anyway?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#366 - 2013-03-07 02:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Frostys Virpio wrote:
What if we put stations in sov null with docking right and service usage limited only to the aliance holding SOV in the system it is in?

I realise it's a huge middle finger to the whole idea of building your own base and stuff but isn't that all considered a huge pain in the ass anyway?

It's basically what happens when you put down an outpost. You can't get rid of it, the big thing is only you can spend a TON to upgrade it to be not-as-good-as-highsec. And your enemy can take it and lock you out, I think they can shoot the services stuff as well if the station is vulnerable.

It also means two timers to consider when trying to grind sov.


EDIT: There were already "seeded" stations, by the way. They tend to be better than player-dropped ones (bigger docking radius). Take a look at Mittanigrad (VFK-IV) for an example.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#367 - 2013-03-07 02:16:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:



Because, for any serious manufacturer, costs are irrelevant.



What...

More costs = less profits, what in the world makes you think more costs is a good thing? You honestly think we think costs are irrelevant in any of our choices?

Even your own mad workings out show high sec is the only logical choice.



Not quite.

I can make X produce for Y cost.

I can make 3X product for 2Y cost.

The actual cost isn't relevant, as long as it's within my means. Because the profit is higher.

I'll admit, it wasn't well worded.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2013-03-07 02:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Nexus Day wrote:
Given the risk vs reward relationship the order should be WH industry > Low Industry > Null=Hi industry.

But my guess is CCP will keep things the way they are. Why not? It seems the formula is working.

No, it isn't.

However bridging off your idea, I like the idea of making WH space the most optimal place for T3 production. A lot of POS changes would have to happen to make that possible, though.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#369 - 2013-03-07 02:19:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
Given the risk vs reward relationship the order should be WH industry > Low Industry > Null=Hi industry.

But my guess is CCP will keep things the way they are. Why not? It seems the formula is working.

No, it isn't.

It is, you're a nullsec zealot, your "opinion" is worthless here on GENERAL DISCUSSION.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#370 - 2013-03-07 02:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Nexus Day wrote:
Given the risk vs reward relationship the order should be WH industry > Low Industry > Null=Hi industry.

But my guess is CCP will keep things the way they are. Why not? It seems the formula is working.

Wormholes weren't intended to be occupied long term (CCP actually said this). Lowsec industry is fairly on par with highsec, but people pretty much only build carriers, dreads & rorquals out there. Null is only as safe as it's residents make it through effort expended & was intended to be occupied long term. Saying that null industry shouldn't be a priority because it can be as safe as highsec is silly.

However, a POS revamp (particularly the awesome modular POS ideas) would benefit WH residents a lot aswell & this is what nullsec residents have been asking for.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#371 - 2013-03-07 02:22:43 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
What if we put stations in sov null with docking right and service usage limited only to the aliance holding SOV in the system it is in?

I realise it's a huge middle finger to the whole idea of building your own base and stuff but isn't that all considered a huge pain in the ass anyway?

It's basically what happens when you put down an outpost. You can't get rid of it, the big thing is only you can spend a TON to upgrade it to be not-as-good-as-highsec. And your enemy can take it and lock you out, I think they can shoot the services stuff as well if the station is vulnerable.

It also means two timers to consider when trying to grind sov.


All that null sec stuff looks so bad to someone who's never been there. It looks like do X more the recive Y less for it... It's not inviting at all...
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2013-03-07 02:24:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It is, you're a nullsec zealot, your "opinion" is worthless here on GENERAL DISCUSSION.


MY POSTS FOR NULLSEC!

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#373 - 2013-03-07 02:24:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
All that null sec stuff looks so bad to someone who's never been there. It looks like do X more the recive Y less for it... It's not inviting at all...


This guy gets it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#374 - 2013-03-07 02:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
All that null sec stuff looks so bad to someone who's never been there. It looks like do X more the recive Y less for it... It's not inviting at all...

This guy gets it.

No, it looks even worse when you're here and there's bitches trying to catch your jump freighter (a good JF pilot is of course "riskless" rite~) and you have to freighter stuff around in nullsec (minerals, parts, ships) again, with people camping your gates or JBs.

So yes, Jita it is. Buy, then just one run of JF, done. Drop in VFK where people will get caught in a bubble warping to the station and killed by Black Legion/NC./TerriblePubbies. while trying to buy it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#375 - 2013-03-07 02:48:02 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
All that null sec stuff looks so bad to someone who's never been there. It looks like do X more the recive Y less for it... It's not inviting at all...


This guy gets it.


On the bright side, maybe I can make "I went to null sec and all I got is this lousy lossmail" t-shirts and sell them. Then I would get more than my efforts worth in reward.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#376 - 2013-03-07 02:50:30 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
All that null sec stuff looks so bad to someone who's never been there. It looks like do X more the recive Y less for it... It's not inviting at all...

This guy gets it.

No, it looks even worse when you're here and there's bitches trying to catch your jump freighter (a good JF pilot is of course "riskless" rite~) and you have to freighter stuff around in nullsec (minerals, parts, ships) again, with people camping your gates or JBs.

So yes, Jita it is. Buy, then just one run of JF, done. Drop in VFK where people will get caught in a bubble warping to the station and killed by Black Legion/NC./TerriblePubbies. while trying to buy it.


I wonder how much items are destroyed by people losing whatever they just bought the very second they undock after buying it in null...
Frying Doom
#377 - 2013-03-07 03:26:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I have little experience with Outposts


This will be important for the next quote.

Frying Doom wrote:
outposts already give a fair few bonuses, docking being one of them.


That you think being able to dock in an outpost that you own is a bonus really says it all.


But yet I own several POSs and am unable to dock, or reprocess or massive storage space. So if it is not a bonus on an outpost do you believe that it is a programming error on a POS, after all it is not a bonus?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#378 - 2013-03-07 03:30:07 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
more stuff I disagree with


FD, so far you've called me risk averse in this topic and lazy in another for expressing my opinions. Neither is accurate. And I own a POS. I don't own a dozen of them and do not have POS's stationed across known space. Which is never going to happen.

You again write that boosting manufacturing returns at a high sec POS is some kind of reward for owning one despite countless examples of why tethering a dynamic industry to a stationary object is not beneficial. (Stop doing me favors!) It would be a logistical nightmare for the same exact reasons cited in this topic explaining why it's a nightmare for null players.

Debating whether everything I've invested into my gameplay for the past 14 months is going to be made pointless does frustrate me as the consequences are potentially game-changing to an unacceptable degree. But I play this game because its fun. Piloting a freighter isn't. In fact, it's my least-favorite activity in the game. So tieing my least-favorite activity in the game to my primary source of income isn't something I'm ever going to be a vocal supporter of. How dumb would that be? This change would at best, make my game vastly less enjoyable and at worst end it entirely.

So until the black day comes to pass ushering in changes which ruin my game, I'm going to be a vocal opponent.

For me, there is no other option.

It's not personal. So if my opposition offends anyone, I apologize in advance.

YK

Like I said you are arguing that the yield on a procurer should be the same as on a hulk or it is not fair for the procurer pilot.

And how only being slightly less profitable makes it your training pointless? it would just mean you like every other profession in this game would have to max some skills and no matter how much you use sensationalist comments like that it will never make them true.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#379 - 2013-03-07 03:31:33 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I have little experience with Outposts


This will be important for the next quote.

Frying Doom wrote:
outposts already give a fair few bonuses, docking being one of them.


That you think being able to dock in an outpost that you own is a bonus really says it all.


But yet I own several POSs and am unable to dock, or reprocess or massive storage space. So if it is not a bonus on an outpost do you believe that it is a programming error on a POS, after all it is not a bonus?


POS towers & outposts are two completely different things.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Frying Doom
#380 - 2013-03-07 03:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
removed

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!