EVE General Discussion

Well, lets look at this from the perspective of reality.

Do western counties have more industry than say African or middle Eastern countries? Why is that....what could possibly be the reason? As a business person, do you want your business in a well controlled, stable society or one that might explode into tribal warfare at any time?

So, I guess it's only the null people that want a place that can erupt into tribal warfare with +1000 spearchuckers running around like mad-men destroying everything in their wake to have better industry than hs. Your logic is impeccable!

Speaking for the rest of the universe....no thanks, we'll keep our industry in HS so the price of our ships don't fluctuate from reasonable to insane every other day.

If we have industry facilities in null sec that are superior to high sec so that we would need to JF stuff in, that would actually increase the risk to us because these would be facilities that you could capture, disrupt, or destroy.

Done correctly it would be a proper conflict driver, would actually incentivize holding space, and increase nullsec self-sufficiency. It would also likely result in a lot of industry characters relocating to nullsec.

I agree that nullsec indy should be somewhat self sufficient at least with basic stuff like minerals and manufacturing/research slots. As of right now there isn't much infrastructure in terms of manufacturing slot availability. Outposts lack the necessary slots for even small scale production and since only 1 can be placed per system you would have to travel around or us POS.

People claim that manufacturing with POS is the way to go in null but it's too risky. This is due to POS roles severely lacking when it comes to securing who can start/cancel jobs, not to mention only corp members can access those slots. For null to be "fixed" indy wise it needs to have a basic infrastructure like high does now where anyone can use it. But there will always be some dependence on high for empire materials like data cores/faction mods. This leads into my next point of JF

As for highsec beating nullsec indy this is mainly due to the ease with which people can JF supplies into deep nullsec space. I can't tell how many threads I've read with nullsec players claiming that getting supplies into null is dangerous when they can jump right on a station and dock immediately all the way through a cyno chain to anywhere in null very quickly. To me, this undermines the development of nullsec indy to begin with as it's easier/cheaper to just import everything in.

This is also the reason we see huge blobs of caps and new ones being built very rapidly. Sure there are people out in null mining for mins but why do that when you can JF a couple loads of 425mm rails from high and reprocess it to build a titan? I'm my opinion removing JF and mineral compression would actually make it harder to build caps since it would be easier to mine in null than import from high. Making caps harder to build means people would be less willing to risk them so all the hotdrop/blob whining we see on the forums would finally stop. Null would have to develop indy or convoy supplies in and how many fights would be generated by opposing alliances trying to kill supply convoys?

There shouldn't be a problem with getting low end minerals in null with bigger rocks and instant respawning grav sites. Huge alliance like TEST/Goons/Solar should be able to field a huge number of miners since they have 5000+ people and not have to JF minerals in, much less out to jita. Null should be supplying null not exporting everything to Jita.

This.

This is one of the major issues with making stuff.

In high, you can start jobs and they're perfectly safe from your fellow corp members.

Being able to launch a POS that /only/ you can access. Or part of a POS that is just yours, that will help a lot. And it'd help with removing one of the reasons for people to have single player corps (can't trust people with your resources)

As high sec carebear, I'd say.... of course null industry should be better than high sec.

I would not mind seeing low sec rocks produce 2x the mins of high and null rocks produce 4x high. I would no mind seeing the cost of high sec production lines increased. I would not mind seeing high sec POS tower sizes limited to small.

The biggest buff null industry is some form of defense against the AFK cloaky. Maybe something like a cloak jammer, or maybe just probes that can scan out a cloaked ship.


If those things were to accompany things I really want, like 25 hours between GT vs 24 hr, so every timezone gets equal treatment...

Heck, I may even consider leaving high sec again. Maybe.

Because a large number of players are carebears, and a large number of them fund their accounts on PLEX, there HAS to be a place that is (relatively) safe, that allows people to go about their business (mostly) unmolested, to guarantee a way to grind the ISK needed to keep the accounts funded.

So, there is a baseline below which high can't be nerfed, and that baseline is the ability to make enough ISK in high sec, that someone else will trade a month's subscription for that ISK.


CCP has looked at buffing pay for other game mechanics above this base level. Incursions, Domination's additional anoms, LP from FW plexing, etc. Every time they attempt to buff an activity above the PLEX baseline, the result is the same... MASSSIVE ISK inflation as a few wallets grow amazingly fat, in short order.

Think about it. If they increase your ability to pull ISK from a null system, who is going to get the bulk of that additional ISK? The grinder? Not hardly. The coalition leadership will increase rents, causing corps to increase taxes. The extra ISK flows uphill into the hands of the coalition leadership.

It isn't that CCP doesn't want to make other things pay better than the necessary high sec PLEX baseline. It is just that every attempt to do so has had undesirable, unintended, side-effects, and they've had to back out or nerf the changes.

Not hardly. Have you heard of the cov ops cyno, that is not jammed even by a system cyno jammer?

This was bad when I was last in null a year or so ago, and has only gotten worse with recent buffs to black ops jump range and jump portal range. There is no effective defense against an afk cloaky with a cov ops cyno.

No, there really hasn't. If they can't afford the game, then maybe they should consider cutting down on their spending. If they absolutely have to use PLEXes, for some inconceivable reason, then maybe they should look into something more lucrative than solely relying on highsec industry.

If anything, CCP should probably do their best to knock this silly sense of entitlement out of as many as possible, since it's apparently the cause of so much game balance problems.

…except, of course, that what people earn has pretty much nothing to do with ISK inflation. FW and other LP-based activities are deflationary, for instance, as is industry. Making null industry pay more would not have the effect you're thinking of.

Hrm.... Don't we already have a 40 page threadnaught on this?

Anyways. Any buff to null should result in an equal buff to WH space. As buffing null just helps people in alliances.

You shouldn't be punished for being a small corp.

Why are we seeing another thread about this?
CCP shut down a 110 page threadnaught about this last month.

They got the message.
It is going to happen.

This guy clearly has not got the message from the null sec propaganda teams that is fait accompli.

High sec industry will be hugely hammered, in order to "re-balance" the game.

I agree that null and wormholes should have easily attainable 100% refine at stations and POS's respectively. I lived in both for quite some time and I always thought was unfair.
I would also go as far as to see the amount of mfg/science slots be increased at player owned stations to be on par with high sec/low sec stations.

But neither of these changes will encourage null sec industry,.
There are far far more lucrative activities per hour in null sec than mining , or going through the clickfest of invention / manufacturing. The only way it will change is if CCP somehow manages to push industry into the 100 M / hour range.

The only way that happens is to give null complete control of T2 mfg, so they can control it as they do moon goo. (BTW folks, test has announced they are now trying to control neo and other goos as they do tech. ) That means removing it from high sec, with a subsequent enormous increase in prices, and hence profit margins. Oh, and WHEN, not if, CCP introduces superveld and superscordite to null sec to create vastly more rich mining opportunities, the resulting crash in low end mins in high sec will destroy mining profitability.