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New player confused what to train before summer skill changes
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Kaalika
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-23 12:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaalika
Trying to make a skill plan for my pvp character that takes the upcoming changes into account and have a few questions so far.

1. Is the following list correct? [EDITED thanks to feedback!]

***Remapping (active) : i17 p27 c17 w21 m17***
1. Caldari Frigate III
2. Spaceship Command IV
3. Destroyers I
4. Destroyers II
5. Destroyers III
6. Caldari Frigate IV
7. Caldari Cruiser I
8. Caldari Cruiser II
9. Caldari Cruiser III
10. Battlecruisers I
11. Battlecruisers II
12. Battlecruisers III
13. Gallente Frigate I
14. Gallente Frigate II
15. Gallente Frigate III
16. Gallente Frigate IV
17. Gallente Cruiser I
18. Gallente Cruiser II
19. Gallente Cruiser III
20. Minmatar Frigate I
21. Minmatar Frigate II
22. Minmatar Frigate III
23. Minmatar Frigate IV
24. Minmatar Cruiser I
25. Minmatar Cruiser II
26. Minmatar Cruiser III
27. Amarr Frigate I
28. Amarr Frigate II
29. Amarr Frigate III
30. Amarr Frigate IV
31. Amarr Cruiser I
32. Amarr Cruiser II
33. Amarr Cruiser III
34. Battlecruisers IV
35. Battlecruisers V
36. Destroyers IV
37. Destroyers V
(38. Spaceship Command V - Removed from plan)
(39. Advanced Spaceship Command I - Removed from plan)


12 unique skills, 39 skill levels; Total time: 52 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes, 37 seconds

Skillbooks will be:

(Have Spaceship Command book granted from tutorial)
Destroyers
(Have Caldari Frigate book granted from tutorial)
Caldari Cruiser
Battlecruisers
Gallente Frigate
Gallente Cruiser
Minmatar Frigate
Minmatar Cruiser
Amarr Frigate
Amarr Cruiser

Approximate Cost: 53,220,000 ISK (Ouch!)

2. When is summer?

Being new I don't know how long we've got before the changes roll out. Is there time to mess around with the tutorial and free skillbooks or should I just plug in the above plan NOW because it'll take over 44 (52) days?

3. What other skills will I need in order to actually fly these ships not just sit in them?

Did I miss anything important?

Thanks in advance!
hellcane
Never Back Down
#2 - 2013-02-23 13:36:17 UTC
Look down about 3 topics.
Kaalika
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-23 14:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaalika
hellcane wrote:
Look down about 3 topics.


Great, simple answer. Doesn't answer the question. I read that whole thread yesterday, plus read the dev blog about 10 times and am still confused.

Are these skills correct?

Did I miss anything?

Do I have 44 days from NOW to do this, or more, is it possible to do the tutorials first or will I have to jump straight into this plan?

I'm new to the game so can't tell from experience.

Thank you for anyone willing to actually help by answering three simple questions.
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#4 - 2013-02-23 16:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bridgette d'Iberville
In all fairness, you're not really asking a specific question. There are a LOT of prerequisite changes being planned for the Summer. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're specifically asking about the Destroyer/Battlecruiser changes based on what's posted above. If that's the case, here's what you need:

(Racial) Frigate IV
Destroyer V
(Racial) Cruiser III
Advanced Spaceship Command IV
Battlecruiser V

That gets you (Racial) Destroyer V and (Racial) Battlecruiser V when the changes hit in the summer. You don't need Spaceship Command V or Advanced Spaceship Command I for the Destroyer/Battlecruiser changes. Eliminating the two from your plan would get you a little closer to getting Destroyer V, which doesn't appear on your list.

There is no exact date for the Summer changes, but I would start now

ETA: Plug in the skills that you need for the change, but go ahead and do the tutorials. While you may need to train a few skills to I or II in order to complete the tutorials (which generally takes between 15 & 45 minutes max), you should earn enough money by the end of the different agent's missions to purchase implants to boost your attributes in the specific areas needed to more quickly train your spaceship command skills. In other words, you should make up for lost time.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
hellcane
Never Back Down
#5 - 2013-02-23 17:53:23 UTC
Next time mention that you read but didn't understand the other threads.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74234

Racial frig 4
Racial cruiser 3
Spaceship command(not advanced) 4
BC5
Destroyer 5

Summer xpac = some time in the summer. No date set yet, if you want these skills, train now. Just be aware that dropping everything to train some of these long skills isn't the beat for new chars.
Kaalika
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-23 18:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaalika
Ok can do. Thank you both.

Will drop Spaceship Command V and Advanced Spaceship Command I to the end of the line and go for Destroyers V earlier instead.

The character will be for combat, I have a miner to start with so just want to make sure the pvp character gets the skills she'll need later on. I hadn't looked into the skills yet before seeing the announced changes, which is partly why I was so confused about the reqs.

If there's time to pick up a few things from the tutorial and finish up some training on my miner then I can start having fun in squishy frigates as soon as I can afford it or find a good corp.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-23 18:33:19 UTC
To be honest, as a new player I'd say focus on the skills you need now, to fly the ships you want to fly well first, and secondary look at getting the BC and destroyer skills before they're split.

If you focus on getting the BC skills because of the upcoming change to the detriment of what you need now, you're going to be spending a good few months frustrated because you can't fly anything well.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#8 - 2013-02-24 08:02:19 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
To be honest, as a new player I'd say focus on the skills you need now, to fly the ships you want to fly well first, and secondary look at getting the BC and destroyer skills before they're split.

If you focus on getting the BC skills because of the upcoming change to the detriment of what you need now, you're going to be spending a good few months frustrated because you can't fly anything well.


Words of wisdom here. If you insist on getting those ship skills first no matter what, I see a lot of frustration in your future.

Could you also please explain why do you feel you have to train the 'Advanced Spaceship Command' skill. It does not do what you think it does. You simply do not need that skill, not until you start looking into flying capital ships.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#9 - 2013-02-24 21:27:57 UTC
What happens in the summer?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-24 21:31:24 UTC
See the sticky at the top of this forum "The great ship skill change of summer 2013" (also the Dev Blog by the same name)
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#11 - 2013-02-24 21:55:57 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
See the sticky at the top of this forum "The great ship skill change of summer 2013" (also the Dev Blog by the same name)



Aha. Well looks alright. Nothing major as long as you're serious about your path.

Worst case you train too far into a ship to get to the next but with the change being so far away it's either that or fly a cruiser for the next 6 months.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Tianthaya Nolen
Sama Guild
#12 - 2013-02-25 19:31:49 UTC
my advise is to get BC V and be able to fly all races battlecruisers. THEN train CS 4 to skip the hassle of training leadership skills later.
Riato Hamill
The Old Republic Syndicate
#13 - 2013-02-26 12:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Riato Hamill
“if you could fly it before, you can fly it now” that we have been stating for quite a while now".


Taken from the thread you are referring to , Bottom line is you don't HAVE to train anything you don't actually need now, all the changes will do is maybe drop a bonus you currently have, slightly, but you will be able to retrain it up in the new set-up at a significantly less cost.

Personally as said by a few other posters, I would just go about your day to day business, And worry about it, if at all, when the time comes.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-26 13:42:21 UTC
If you can fly and stay alife now, I would train that list because you'll be 7 mil sp behind if don't do it.

wich is about 108 days at 2700sp an hour.

I'd train on to Command ships as well, that will give you quite some extra ships after the change.

getting this list

Racial frig 4
Racial cruiser 3
Spaceship command 5
BC5
Destroyer 5
leadership 5
Warfare Link Specialist 4
Commandship 1



after the change:

4 x Racial Destroyer 5
4 x Racial Battlecruiser 5

Access to 8 command ships.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#15 - 2013-02-27 12:01:45 UTC
If you're asking this question but can't operate google well enough to find the answer, the answer is, as always:

"No, you're too late, don't bother training BCs anymore."

Not so much because that's the right answer as because you're far too incompetent to be entrusted with an internet connection, much less a relatively expensive ship for a newer player.
Daimar Lavode
#16 - 2013-02-27 18:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Daimar Lavode
Mike Whiite wrote:
If you can fly and stay alife now, I would train that list because you'll be 7 mil sp behind if don't do it.

wich is about 108 days at 2700sp an hour.

I'd train on to Command ships as well, that will give you quite some extra ships after the change.

getting this list

Racial frig 4
Racial cruiser 3
Spaceship command 5
BC5
Destroyer 5
leadership 5
Warfare Link Specialist 4
Commandship 1



after the change:

4 x Racial Destroyer 5
4 x Racial Battlecruiser 5

Access to 8 command ships.



I'm wondering if this is technically true. In order to sit in the command ships you need more than Command Ships I and Warefare Link Specialist IV trained, you also need Logistics IV / Heavy Assault Ships IV depending on which variant you want to sit in plus the racial cruisers to V. So with the skills listed above you would be able to get the 4 racial battlecruiser and destroyer skills and the "free" skill points, but you can't fly a Nighthawk for example and therefore would you be able to fly one after the patch?

I'm currently able to fly both Caldari Advanced Battlecruisers but cannot fly the other 3 races since I don't have those racial Cruiser skills to V so I'm guessing I will not all of a sudden be able to fly a Claymore after the patch hits. I will have a significant jump on new characters since I won't have to train Minny Battlecruiser to V, but I think I'd still have to get all the new pre-reqs. I could very well be wrong, but that's how I read the "if you can fly it now you can fly it after" statement.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-02-27 20:03:00 UTC
Daimar Lavode wrote:
I'm wondering if this is technically true. In order to sit in the command ships you need more than Command Ships I and Warefare Link Specialist IV trained, you also need Logistics IV / Heavy Assault Ships IV depending on which variant you want to sit in plus the racial cruisers to V. So with the skills listed above you would be able to get the 4 racial battlecruiser and destroyer skills and the "free" skill points, but you can't fly a Nighthawk for example and therefore would you be able to fly one after the patch?


The Logistics and Heavy Assault ships requirements are been removed from command ships, so after the patch you won't need those.

Quote:
I'm currently able to fly both Caldari Advanced Battlecruisers but cannot fly the other 3 races since I don't have those racial Cruiser skills to V so I'm guessing I will not all of a sudden be able to fly a Claymore after the patch hits. I will have a significant jump on new characters since I won't have to train Minny Battlecruiser to V, but I think I'd still have to get all the new pre-reqs. I could very well be wrong, but that's how I read the "if you can fly it now you can fly it after" statement.


Take a careful read through the dev blog (and maybe a second read, there's a lot of info in there)
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74234

If, after the patch, you have Minmatar Battlecruiser 5 and Command Ships 1, you will be able to fly the Claymore. That's because [racial] cruiser 5 will no longer be a requirement, rather [racial] battlecruiser 5 will.

Quote:
Command Ships

Racial Cruiser 5 requirement swapped for racial Battlecruiser 5
Generic and old Battlecruiser skill removed from the Command Ship skill
Heavy Assault Ships skill requirement removed from Field Command Ships (Absolution, Nighthawk, Astarte, Sleipnir)
Logistics skill requirement removed from Fleet Command Ships (Damnation, Vulture, Eos, Claymore)
Information Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
Armored Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
Siege Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
Skirmish Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#18 - 2013-02-27 20:03:46 UTC
Daimar Lavode wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
If you can fly and stay alife now, I would train that list because you'll be 7 mil sp behind if don't do it.

wich is about 108 days at 2700sp an hour.

I'd train on to Command ships as well, that will give you quite some extra ships after the change.

getting this list

Racial frig 4
Racial cruiser 3
Spaceship command 5
BC5
Destroyer 5
leadership 5
Warfare Link Specialist 4
Commandship 1



after the change:

4 x Racial Destroyer 5
4 x Racial Battlecruiser 5

Access to 8 command ships.



I'm wondering if this is technically true. In order to sit in the command ships you need more than Command Ships I and Warefare Link Specialist IV trained, you also need Logistics IV / Heavy Assault Ships IV depending on which variant you want to sit in plus the racial cruisers to V. So with the skills listed above you would be able to get the 4 racial battlecruiser and destroyer skills and the "free" skill points, but you can't fly a Nighthawk for example and therefore would you be able to fly one after the patch?


"If you could fly it before, then you can fly it after" is not a rule that applies to command ships, because the requirements for command ships is changing from one set of EXISTING skills, to another set of EXISTING skills.
You're using the BC and dessie logic where it doesn't apply. Dessie and BC change is different because the requirements are changing from one set of EXISTING skills, and then converting into new skills that DONT exist yet.

In short, just train the command ships skill now, because it is easier to access that skill now than it will be in the future.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#19 - 2013-02-28 09:02:53 UTC
Wow, people are dense. How many different ways do you need the same thing explained to you?
Laurinius
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#20 - 2013-02-28 11:53:19 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
"If you could fly it before, then you can fly it after" is not a rule that applies to command ships, because the requirements for command ships is changing from one set of EXISTING skills, to another set of EXISTING skills.

"If you could fly it before, then you can fly it after" still applies for command ships. But for command ships we have the situation that "If cou could NOT fly it before, then you can NOT fly it after" is false, so with right skills trained you can fly those ships after even if you couldn't before.
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