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How does a frigate prevent a faster frigate from staying too close?

Author
Skarp Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-27 13:50:17 UTC
Example frigates below.

Incursus:

  1. Afterburner Fitted
  2. Webifier fitted
  3. Scrambler fitted
  4. 6.27s align time


Slasher:

  1. Afterburner fitted
  2. Scrambler fitted
  3. Neut fitted
  4. Tracking disruptor fitted
  5. 4.17s align time


Question: how would the Incursus prevent the Slasher from staying at very close range?

Options:

  1. Incursus could fit two webifiers and burn away
  2. ... ?
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#2 - 2013-02-27 13:55:22 UTC
You can manually pilot a bit I suppose. Is the slasher neut fit? It will e a race between burning his tank down vs. your cap going away.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#3 - 2013-02-27 13:58:08 UTC
First, i think the main question would be: How could the Incursus keep up with the Slasher to actually kill it?
Second, the Align-Time determines how fast a ship accelerates. Actual Topspeed with AB/MWD and without would be by far more important in dictating range.
Third, the Incursus prevents the Slasher from staying at very close range by pounding it with it's blasters.
Fourth, ships that don't want to get into closecombat and still get caught got outpiloted, bad luck or bad decision-making pilots.
monkfish2345
The Knights of Spamalot
#4 - 2013-02-27 14:00:09 UTC
align time isn;t really the deciding factor here. basicly the faster ship is faster... so it's difficutt to manage range.

the obvious answers. are

1) change scram for web, but then you have no tackle.
2) or fit an MWD and hope he is fitting a disruptor rather than a scram.
3) fit you low slots, rigs etc to give you more speed.
4) use a complex ab.

what you'll probably find in these situations tho, is that the fast ship is less well tanked, so you could instead hold your ground and fight in the short range.

minmatar are good at pvp largely becasue they are able to dictate range, this means they often choose when and if a fight happens.
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-27 14:19:39 UTC
Why is an incursus worried about someone getting to close? That isn't a thing with blasters unless your shooting at something smaller than you.

And you have a web, if he's still faster than you at that point he is rolling with either nanofibers and has 0 tank, or has loki boosts and maybe some Snakes.

And if your asking this because you have rails fit, I pity you.
Skarp Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-27 14:34:41 UTC
Thank you for your educational replies. I am grateful.

Ctzn Snips wrote:
And if your asking this because you have rails fit, I pity you.

^ I do indeed have a 125mm Railgun II-fitted Incursus. And I am getting somewhere with it. I will post the fit at the bottom of the post.

monkfish2345 wrote:
change scram for web, but then you have no tackle.

^ I do have a web. Actually, that answers my original post: If Slasher does not have web, I can just burn away from him (and in the example I gave in original post, he does not have a web)

=================

If you are curious about my fit: (Keep in mind that my char only has 1.7M skill points):

[High-Slots]
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)

[Mid-Slots]
1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

[Low-Slots]
Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

[Rigs]
Small Semi-Conductor Memory Cell I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

[Drones]
Hobgoblin I * 1
Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-27 15:09:42 UTC
You might find a kiting atron better for this. You can fit MWD + disruptor + web/TD for good range dictation.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#8 - 2013-02-27 15:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
The clue is in the web, if you are both ab fit and both want to brawl inside 10km. The one with the web dictates range almost regardless of ship types. Set keep at range at 7.5km, the web will do the rest. though it may take a few seconds to pull range if he came right in before you could land web.

Though if you are going to fit a web, fit a fleeting propulsion meta 4 one. The extra 5% speed reduction makes a difference.
Skarp Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-27 15:16:34 UTC
Zappity wrote:
You might find a kiting atron better for this. You can fit MWD + disruptor + web/TD for good range dictation.

Thank you for your suggestion. Would you mind explaining the difference between "disruptor" and "TD". I thought both were Tracking Disruptor.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:
The clue is in the web, if you are both ab fit and both want to brawl inside 10km. The one with the web dictates range almost regardless of ship types. Set keep at range at 7.5km, the web will do the rest. though it may take a few seconds to pull range if he came right in before you could land web.

+1 this is how I have finally understood it. Now I need to upgrade my support skills (Thermodynamics, Navigation etc)
monkfish2345
The Knights of Spamalot
#10 - 2013-02-27 15:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: monkfish2345
he means a warp distruptor as opposed to a scrambler.

this allows you to prevent warp at longer range. 24km for t2. but it will not shut off their mwd.

this is usually the preferable option when you are able to control the range of an engagement.

edit: previously when i said switch scram for web, i was suggesting 2 webs. but like i say you then lose tackle.
monkfish2345
The Knights of Spamalot
#11 - 2013-02-27 15:24:27 UTC
Skarp Severasse wrote:
Thank you for your educational replies. I am grateful.

Ctzn Snips wrote:
And if your asking this because you have rails fit, I pity you.

^ I do indeed have a 125mm Railgun II-fitted Incursus. And I am getting somewhere with it. I will post the fit at the bottom of the post.

monkfish2345 wrote:
change scram for web, but then you have no tackle.

^ I do have a web. Actually, that answers my original post: If Slasher does not have web, I can just burn away from him (and in the example I gave in original post, he does not have a web)

=================

If you are curious about my fit: (Keep in mind that my char only has 1.7M skill points):

[High-Slots]
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)
125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)

[Mid-Slots]
1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

[Low-Slots]
Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

[Rigs]
Small Semi-Conductor Memory Cell I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

[Drones]
Hobgoblin I * 1


this fit is a mix of 2 roles.

rails are for long range fighting, but scram and web are not effective unless within 10km.

you need to make a choice, either switch the rails for blasters. or look to change you mids so you get more use out of them at range. (mwd, TD etc)
Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
Just Happy to be Here
#12 - 2013-02-27 15:38:06 UTC
If he has a neut fitted , align something. OH ab and hope your faster then him .Slasher has little tank..
If he doesnt have a neut.. use antimatter and **** him , when he trys too disengage , oh ab and burn at him
Skarp Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-02-27 16:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Skarp Severasse
Great responses!

I have a tough one for you. There is a blaster Atron on Loadout Browser that has both a web and a scram. The damage output is spectacular, and range is above and beyond a normal frigate. But it wants to hug you.

Here is the scenario: Your Incursus is caught within the Atron's web / scram range. You are both webbing each other, but the Atron would be faster. How will you fit / pilot your incursus to get out of that predicament?

Bonus if you use the above-mentioned Incursus fit as a starting point, but any solution would do - as long as you pilot an Incursus.

==================
EDIT: This scenario is so interesting, that I am creating a new thread for it. URL in a minute.
==================

EDIT2: Here is the new thread.
monkfish2345
The Knights of Spamalot
#14 - 2013-02-27 16:16:56 UTC
Skarp Severasse wrote:
Great responses!

I have a tough one for you. There is a blaster Atron on Loadout Browser that has both a web and a scram. The damage output is spectacular, and range is above and beyond a normal frigate. But it wants to hug you.

Here is the scenario: Your Incursus is caught within the Atron's web / scram range. You are both webbing each other, but the Atron would be faster. How will you fit / pilot your incursus to get out of that predicament?

Bonus if you use the above-mentioned Incursus fit as a starting point, but any solution would do - as long as you pilot an Incursus.


by this point your in a bit of a tight spot. you've lost your greatest advantage in the fight, range.

the obvious choices are to fit your short range ammo. and overheat AB and oh rep once get you to low shield.

all you can really hope to do is out last him. If overheated you can pull some range, then you can burn away. if not then there is very little you can do other than hope that your reps offset enough of his damage to pull through (which is unlikely)

Skarp Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-27 16:24:30 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
by this point your in a bit of a tight spot. you've lost your greatest advantage in the fight, range.

the obvious choices are to fit your short range ammo. and overheat AB and oh rep once get you to low shield.

all you can really hope to do is out last him. If overheated you can pull some range, then you can burn away. if not then there is very little you can do other than hope that your reps offset enough of his damage to pull through (which is unlikely)

Hmm, I think you may be right.

I created a new thread for this scenario, so if you feel like it, please post reponses here.
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
#16 - 2013-02-27 18:53:45 UTC
It is implied in definition of faster is that he can overtake you. If he can't overtake you, then he isn't faster. So the original question is moot.

Unless you make yourself go faster or make the target go slower, you'll always be overtaken.

So either fit speed mods, get Loki links etc. or fit webifiers etc.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-28 07:11:35 UTC
Kill it.

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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-02-28 07:46:48 UTC
If you cant shake him and pull range, OH ab and align to something, he is not fast enough to keep up transversal with you while you're aligned.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#19 - 2013-02-28 08:45:12 UTC
Load tracking ammo, take especially good care of your one hero drone, enjoy his lack of tank.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#20 - 2013-02-28 22:03:40 UTC
Skarp Severasse wrote:
Example frigates below.

Incursus:

  1. Afterburner Fitted
  2. Webifier fitted
  3. Scrambler fitted
  4. 6.27s align time


Slasher:

  1. Afterburner fitted
  2. Scrambler fitted
  3. Neut fitted
  4. Tracking disruptor fitted
  5. 4.17s align time


Question: how would the Incursus prevent the Slasher from staying at very close range?

Options:

  1. Incursus could fit two webifiers and burn away
  2. ... ?




Sell the incursis - buy a hookbill.

AB/ Scram/2xWeb/msb in mids.

Set orbit to 7000m

Kill other thing.


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