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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#461 - 2011-10-27 17:37:22 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
[..]Its just the ppl that are now crying cause they shelved WiS that are pissing me off. [..]working on several projects like they said they couldnt do in the first place.[..]

I don't see why that should **** you off [anger you]. Or I maybe I do. Everyone has feelings. Even the WIS lovers. Imagine how you would feel if you've been waiting for something for several years, and just as they are about to give it to you, they change their mind.
If FiS lovers can get emotional and tell CCP what they want after 18 months of not getting it, WIS lovers can do the same after several years of not getting it.

Also, "spreading ourselves too thin" does not equal "unable to work on several projects".

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
kakmonstret
Domain Mining and Trading Corp
#462 - 2011-10-27 18:02:48 UTC
I too like the idea of WiS and have always felt that this is a missing part in eve.

Considering the amount of people that work at CCP (the 80% that's left) it should not be impossible to get progress on both WiS and FiS at the same time. Compare the amount of people these 80% is with how many they where back in the first expansions this should be within reach. Especially when they get DUST booted out the door.

Sure put the focus on FiS for this expansion considering the neglection the last year(s). Then start up the work on WiS for the next expansion and make some features for FiS and some for WiS in each expansion.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#463 - 2011-10-27 21:00:47 UTC
Bomberlocks wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Some key points I think were misrepresented by some of the posters.

1. We lost a lot of subs, that was not just in protest of WiS.

-It was a reaction to a lame single room/player WiS
-The golden ammo microtransaction face plant that is Nex (which is still here by the way)
-Stagnant FiS and rage over what had clearly been CCP sucking Eve dry while using that cash to build two other games
-Burnout when it became clear that nothing "new" can be expected in Eve anytime soon
-CCP's clear disconnect with NeX pricing and the greed is good leaked newsletter (monocolegate)

2. CCP describes Eve as a Scifi simulator, not a space combat game.

3. This thread is not WiS over FIS. It is "CCP please keep something on the burner, not on ice" for folks that believe WiS will make Eve better.

4. There is now way to know what percentage of folks in Eve want FiS only, Wis, Wis and FiS, a fox in a box or a train. But clearly to say no one in Eve wants WiS is simply wrong.

5. WiS is not space barbies, it is key to RP and emmersiveness and the community has already shared a number of ideas that would make WiS interesting to many folks in Eve.

6. WiS can be decoupled from WoD. Branch the code and move the team on WoD to WiS. CCP can come back to WoD when they get the increase in Eve subscriptions delivering ambulation creates.

Issler

Issler, I hate to say this, but you're starting to sound like a stuck record. But ok, let us say CCP stops working on FiS and goes back to working on WiS. Do you think CCP would survive the subsequent mass unsubbing (again)? You're not on the CSM, although you were and wanted to be again, and I presume you know a fair few people who know what the loss of subs really were. Go ahead, ask them whether they think that neglecting FiS in place of Wis again would be a good idea.


Would folks please stop saying I'm saying "CCP stop FiS work for WiS work!". I haven't said that and won't!

I am saying either put the WoD remaining resourcs on WiS or make it clear WiS work will resume in some form after the winter expansion ALONG with ongoing FiS work.

Several of my posts where I try and correct folks misrepresenting what I am saying have been moderated to the corn field so I'm sorry to have to post this correction again.

Issler
Lindt Elgorriaga
Chocolate latex and leather Social Club
#464 - 2011-10-27 21:56:18 UTC
they did awesome things with the avatars,
alas, they rushed incarna and bring it unfinished
it would be a waste, if they abandon it

People get toooo much emoted with this discussion too

Eat a little bit of chocolate and relax....

Don't consider chocolate as a substitute of sex, consider it as a different pleasure... ...but that won't prevent you from being a pervert
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#465 - 2011-10-27 22:24:03 UTC
Che Biko wrote:

I don't see why that should **** you off [anger you]. .


killing the company working on the game.
theres your reason.
another reason ppl are pissed at the WiS crowd. They refuse to understand this.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Jita Alt666
#466 - 2011-10-27 22:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
People in this thread (both sides) need to step back and look at reality.:

1. CCP have made a large and sudden shift in direction.
2. This shift has involved approximately 120 people losing their jobs (20% of 600).
3. The company has dropped one of the three projects it was working on.
4. The project dropped had close links with the walking in stations aspect of Eve Online.
5. The company has publicly announced a return to the focus on Flying in Space.

If I was a potential shareholder/director in a company that made these decisions, I would be attempting to gather as many details about the accounts as possible. It sounds like a company that has overextended. It sounds like a company restructuring to focus on core services. It sounds like a company which has realised what its customers value most. It sounds like a company fighting to survive.

Walking in Stations (creating a complete immersion experience) is a fantastic goal. CCP have often established lofty goals other companies would dismiss as folly. Due to the over extension the company has made in some areas it will have limited resources available in other areas. Arguing for or against WIS or FIS as the most important thing right now is irrelevant. CCP have decided on a path - what is relevant is the quality of what they deliver.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#467 - 2011-10-27 22:41:04 UTC
This thread just needs to die
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Jita Alt666
#468 - 2011-10-27 22:45:42 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
This thread just needs to die


This thread yes. This discussion hmmm....
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2011-10-27 22:55:48 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
This thread just needs to die


Pretty much.

CCP did the right thing taking a step back and returning to work on eve itself. Maybe now while they give us some actual content for a change, they can also take a look at the horrible fiasco they created, see what went wrong and do it better next time, at a later date.

But not now. After that shitstorm I dont want to see anymore wis, barbie or pony related.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#470 - 2011-10-28 00:10:49 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
This thread just needs to die


This thread yes. This discussion hmmm....


So where would the discussion continue?

Issler
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#471 - 2011-10-28 01:05:00 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
This thread just needs to die


This thread yes. This discussion hmmm....


So where would the discussion continue?

Issler


Kugu.com lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#472 - 2011-10-28 02:20:55 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
That should tell CCP what the communities feelings are regarding WiS.

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.


99% of the people that get cancer eat some type of wheat product, therefore all cancer is caused by wheat! (I am using the same logic you used to determine why people canceled)

We have opinions on why it happened but I don't believe anyone has done any real research on what happened and why all we have is antidotal evidence and as you can see that kind of evidence can provide some very incorrect results.

If CCP wants to really find out what its people want and why some left it needs to do some type of statical survey or something of that nature. Otherwise they will be floundering under false ideas based off of assumptions that could or could not be correct in nature.

PS If you don't know I want WiS and if CCP is going to continue on its course of FiS only, I truly believe that they are going to continue to loose subs until the game becomes irrelevant to the MMO genre.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#473 - 2011-10-28 02:22:59 UTC
Wis is not a another game, it is meant to complement FIS.

a balance approach of Focus on FIS with some work continuing on FIS.

due to the amount of work already completed on WIS, a small amount of resources will go a long

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#474 - 2011-10-28 02:56:00 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.

"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.

So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.

DO NOT ABANDON WiS!!
LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!

Issler

no
they are never going to get it right or properly prepared for release for another five years
remember PI? I still do, remember walking in station? I still do, remember faction warfare? I still do, have any of them been actually fixed? nope.
fix the stuff we currently have before saying "OHHH SHINEY SHINEY" about wanting a piece of crap spray painted with a metallic silver color.
Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#475 - 2011-10-28 02:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekela
.. Need to read - sorry for blank post
Jita Alt666
#476 - 2011-10-28 06:26:01 UTC
Mekela wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
That should tell CCP what the communities feelings are regarding WiS.

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.


99% of the people that get cancer eat some type of wheat product, therefore all cancer is caused by wheat! (I am using the same logic you used to determine why people canceled)

We have opinions on why it happened but I don't believe anyone has done any real research on what happened and why all we have is antidotal evidence and as you can see that kind of evidence can provide some very incorrect results.

If CCP wants to really find out what its people want and why some left it needs to do some type of statical survey or something of that nature. Otherwise they will be floundering under false ideas based off of assumptions that could or could not be correct in nature.

PS If you don't know I want WiS and if CCP is going to continue on its course of FiS only, I truly believe that they are going to continue to loose subs until the game becomes irrelevant to the MMO genre.



Are you unaware that when a user cancels their account part of the process is a form that includes the question (paraphrased): "Why are you quitting Eve Online?"

CCP have the numbers. I am pretty sure the actions we are seeing now are a direct reflection of that.
mkint
#477 - 2011-10-28 06:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Mekela wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
That should tell CCP what the communities feelings are regarding WiS.

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.


99% of the people that get cancer eat some type of wheat product, therefore all cancer is caused by wheat! (I am using the same logic you used to determine why people canceled)

We have opinions on why it happened but I don't believe anyone has done any real research on what happened and why all we have is antidotal evidence and as you can see that kind of evidence can provide some very incorrect results.

If CCP wants to really find out what its people want and why some left it needs to do some type of statical survey or something of that nature. Otherwise they will be floundering under false ideas based off of assumptions that could or could not be correct in nature.

PS If you don't know I want WiS and if CCP is going to continue on its course of FiS only, I truly believe that they are going to continue to loose subs until the game becomes irrelevant to the MMO genre.



Are you unaware that when a user cancels their account part of the process is a form that includes the question (paraphrased): "Why are you quitting Eve Online?"

CCP have the numbers. I am pretty sure the actions we are seeing now are a direct reflection of that.

Those kinds of polls really are useless. People often don't know why they are doing something. They just know "i'm mad" or "i'm bored" and try to say that in as complicated a way as possible. But really, when it gets right down to it, those are the two different reasons people unsub. What CCP does not seem to be asking anyone, even themselves is "why are you mad" or "why are you bored" or "if you're mad but weren't bored, would you still be quitting?"

BTW, I'd be willing to bet that even most devs fall into the "I'm bored" category when describing gameplay in EVE, but just don't want to say it out loud. Instead they would say (and do say) "I have family commitments so I don't get to play very much lately." And there's a question for any devs that may be reading... if you weren't a dev, but were still just as bored with EVE, would you have unsubbed already?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Jita Alt666
#478 - 2011-10-28 06:57:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
mkint wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Mekela wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
That should tell CCP what the communities feelings are regarding WiS.

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.


99% of the people that get cancer eat some type of wheat product, therefore all cancer is caused by wheat! (I am using the same logic you used to determine why people canceled)

We have opinions on why it happened but I don't believe anyone has done any real research on what happened and why all we have is antidotal evidence and as you can see that kind of evidence can provide some very incorrect results.

If CCP wants to really find out what its people want and why some left it needs to do some type of statical survey or something of that nature. Otherwise they will be floundering under false ideas based off of assumptions that could or could not be correct in nature.

PS If you don't know I want WiS and if CCP is going to continue on its course of FiS only, I truly believe that they are going to continue to loose subs until the game becomes irrelevant to the MMO genre.



Are you unaware that when a user cancels their account part of the process is a form that includes the question (paraphrased): "Why are you quitting Eve Online?"

CCP have the numbers. I am pretty sure the actions we are seeing now are a direct reflection of that.

Those kinds of polls really are useless. People often don't know why they are doing something. They just know "i'm mad" or "i'm bored" and try to say that in as complicated a way as possible. But really, when it gets right down to it, those are the two different reasons people unsub. What CCP does not seem to be asking anyone, even themselves is "why are you mad" or "why are you bored" or "if you're mad but weren't bored, would you still be quitting?"

BTW, I'd be willing to bet that even most devs fall into the "I'm bored" category when describing gameplay in EVE, but just don't want to say it out loud. Instead they would say (and do say) "I have family commitments so I don't get to play very much lately." And there's a question for any devs that may be reading... if you weren't a dev, but were still just as bored with EVE, would you have unsubbed already?


Not quite true. People know why they cancelled their accounts in the months of June and July 2011. People (like myself) stated very clearly why we were cancelling.

Anyway we're off on a tangent. CCP would not have laid off 120 staff and changed the direction of their company based on assumptions.
mkint
#479 - 2011-10-28 07:06:54 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
mkint wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Mekela wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.


99% of the people that get cancer eat some type of wheat product, therefore all cancer is caused by wheat! (I am using the same logic you used to determine why people canceled)

We have opinions on why it happened but I don't believe anyone has done any real research on what happened and why all we have is antidotal evidence and as you can see that kind of evidence can provide some very incorrect results.

If CCP wants to really find out what its people want and why some left it needs to do some type of statical survey or something of that nature. Otherwise they will be floundering under false ideas based off of assumptions that could or could not be correct in nature.

PS If you don't know I want WiS and if CCP is going to continue on its course of FiS only, I truly believe that they are going to continue to loose subs until the game becomes irrelevant to the MMO genre.



Are you unaware that when a user cancels their account part of the process is a form that includes the question (paraphrased): "Why are you quitting Eve Online?"

CCP have the numbers. I am pretty sure the actions we are seeing now are a direct reflection of that.

Those kinds of polls really are useless. People often don't know why they are doing something. They just know "i'm mad" or "i'm bored" and try to say that in as complicated a way as possible. But really, when it gets right down to it, those are the two different reasons people unsub. What CCP does not seem to be asking anyone, even themselves is "why are you mad" or "why are you bored" or "if you're mad but weren't bored, would you still be quitting?"

BTW, I'd be willing to bet that even most devs fall into the "I'm bored" category when describing gameplay in EVE, but just don't want to say it out loud. Instead they would say (and do say) "I have family commitments so I don't get to play very much lately." And there's a question for any devs that may be reading... if you weren't a dev, but were still just as bored with EVE, would you have unsubbed already?


Not quite true. People know why they cancelled their accounts in the months of June and July 2011. People (like myself) stated very clearly why we were cancelling.

Anyway we're off on a tangent. CCP would not have laid off 120 staff and changed the direction of their company based on assumptions.

Of course, assumptions are all WE have as to why they laid of 120 staff (saying it was because of Incarna is a load of crap.) There was the Jester blog about how the layoffs were all about unpaid loans, not about Space Barbie. It could also be inferred that Hilmar was gambling those jobs from the very beginning, that the only way those jobs could have been saved was if enough people bought in on the Incarna scam, and the WH0RE ST0RE scam to raise the millions and millions of dollars per month needed to keep them on. (And by scam, I mean the classic bait and switch that the marketing team pushed.)

But that's neither here, nor there. If CQ wasn't boring, people wouldn't have unsubbed. For WiS to add value to EVE (real $ value as measured in monthly revenue) it would have to be not boring.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Jita Alt666
#480 - 2011-10-28 07:34:24 UTC
Agree. Has there been any clear indicator from CCP over the past 18 months showing how it would not be boring?