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Anti stealth scanning probes

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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#41 - 2013-02-26 17:55:44 UTC
Liriel Semah wrote:

In null sec the single bomber can stay there and take a look at his d-scan from time to time and if he finds a juicy target or even a whole group of targets he tells his friends they go to their bridging BlOps or Titan, he flys to the targets opens a cyno and they die.

Fleet up and fight back. You have tools at your disposal to do that and to minimize your risk. Your argument boils down to "Do away with afk cloakers so that I can afk rat." CCP is not going to make any changes to help you do this.
Liriel Semah
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#42 - 2013-02-27 12:31:56 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:

Obviously has not spent time living or hunting in WH's to make a statement like that.

Thats true, so whats wrong with the statement that you have to travel to other wormholes instead of just bridging there?

Mag's wrote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

Of course but as long as you can't dock or hide in a POS you will die.

Mag's wrote:
Without local, AFKing is pointless.

No its not because the cloaker can still do the same things as before.
If he really wants the system dwellers knwoing that he is camping the system now he can announce it to them. Local isn't needed for this.

Mag's wrote:

Oh and we are talking about AFKing here, not active game play. If you have issues with hot drops, Titan bridging or Black Ops, then make a thread about them. They are a separate mechanic and not dependant upon cloaks to work.

No because they all work together.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#43 - 2013-02-27 13:07:55 UTC
Liriel Semah wrote:

Mag's wrote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

Of course but as long as you can't dock or hide in a POS you will die.



He wont "die." The potential hotdrop cyno wielding menace will wake up in a clone vat after you just spent 5 or 10 minutes reshiping, fleeting, scanning, and finally warping to him all the time terrified that he will light a cyno when you get there. Once the menace is dispatched and you can safely dock, reship, and get back to your own semi AFK activities the horrible bastard will hop in another cheap ship, fly back to your system and start the whole wretched process over again.

The problem here is not the system, it is the fact that you want to PVE in a PVP environment.
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-02-27 13:13:26 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Before we discuss nerfing cloaks, maybe you could answer the following question for me please.

Whilst they are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?



Who the hell cares. Take your whining about local to a thread about local.
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-02-27 13:16:58 UTC
Quote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

I already said there are differences in WH space. But if you are there cloaked all day and all night, no one would know. That is the whole point. Without local, AFKing is pointless.


The hell it is, cause I can scan you down without a cloak.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#46 - 2013-02-27 13:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Quote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

I already said there are differences in WH space. But if you are there cloaked all day and all night, no one would know. That is the whole point. Without local, AFKing is pointless.


The hell it is, cause I can scan you down without a cloak.



The "do away with afk cloak" crowd hasnt thought about the alternatives players have besides cloaked cyno ships, there are alternatives, and they will be just as nasty for people who don't want to be bothered with PvP while ratting.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#47 - 2013-02-27 13:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
x2
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-02-27 13:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lillith Sakata
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Quote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

I already said there are differences in WH space. But if you are there cloaked all day and all night, no one would know. That is the whole point. Without local, AFKing is pointless.


The hell it is, cause I can scan you down without a cloak.


What are you Liriel's snarky, aggressive alt? Your still wrong. Doing away with "afk" cloaks will just lead to other forms of psychological warfare that you will be equally unable to cope with.

The "do away with afk cloak" crowd hasnt thought about the alternatives players have besides cloaked cyno ships, there are alternatives, and they will be just as nasty for people who don't want to be bothered with PvP while ratting.



I'm not even talking about the stupid argument about '****** warfare' that you keep whining about. And if we got rid of your cloaky semiAFK alt (kinda like mine) and made you actually have to WORK FOR IT by paying attention to scans so that the people defending their system can actually have a chance to get your stupid butt outta their system (and mine, I have wrecked one system and now alternate between two just to see how f'd I can make this whole pocket of space).

And as for these other methods... name one that has you invulnerable while in space. JUST ONE.... oh wait, ya can't.

Come the f on, people. Cloaking is broken as is. Period. Removing local would only make it worse, and I seriously wish you local haters would make your own little happy thread of local haters and shut the hell up with it in other people's posts.

p.s. No, the OP of this thread I don't even know until her post. Was about to ask her to check out my idea, opened the thread, and saw that the local hating whining asshats had derailed her thread as well.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#49 - 2013-02-27 13:35:21 UTC
This is unseemly, I didnt notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-02-27 13:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lillith Sakata
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
This is unseemly, I didn't notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.


Eh... sorry dude, but I've been getting irritated by the morons that derailed my thread and worked this one down to the point where it's way off topic as well. Nothing personal with you in particular. I'm surprised we don't have a particular un-named enemy representing who I've been camping to death. (Oh wait, he doesn't have ties to CVA...)

Ah and As I write this, there is a well known and apparently much better than me camper (that seems to be having issues with his bot software) coming up that does the same thing, except to the highest bidder...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#51 - 2013-02-27 14:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Quote:
AFKing is perfectly possible without cloaks, that is the point and it causes the same psychological effects. It just requires some imagination to accomplish.

I already said there are differences in WH space. But if you are there cloaked all day and all night, no one would know. That is the whole point. Without local, AFKing is pointless.


The hell it is, cause I can scan you down without a cloak.
It's only your lack of imagination and/or misunderstanding of game mechanics, that has you believing otherwise.

It's been done and is being done. You can cause the same effects without a cloak.

Lillith Sakata wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Before we discuss nerfing cloaks, maybe you could answer the following question for me please.

Whilst they are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?



Who the hell cares. Take your whining about local to a thread about local.
If it doesn't matter, why not answer the question?

Oh and that wasn't a whine, it was a question. I believe the whine is about AFKing. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2013-02-27 14:27:01 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
This is unseemly, I didnt notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.
Good luck with that. She is a rather angry pilot and quick to insult, when she cannot argue against points raised.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corez Fumimasa
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-02-27 14:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Corez Fumimasa
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
This is unseemly, I didn't notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.


Eh... sorry dude, but I've been getting irritated by the morons that derailed my thread. Nothing personal with you in particular. I'm surprised we don't have a particular un-named enemy representing who I've been camping to death.


Mags is happy to use this as a "do away with local" stump. It doesn't bother me because I agree with him there, but you are correct in that it is OT.

re AFK potential cyno's; we have a few in s9, just a few days ago we caught one at a gate. And for the most part they haven't been an issue, I just go a system over if there are not enough active friendlies to fleet up with. idk it just seems to me that there's plenty of ways for us to fight back, its not risk free for them, they could cyno into a trap and loose all those pretty bombers.

And even if afk cloaked cyno's are removed there are alternatives to that type of interaction that will cause the same types of problems. Neutral alts with cyno's, or the cheap cyno alt that keeps coming back are two that I can think of.

The other thing is ratting fits; I use HAMs and get right in close, tank isn't a huge issue, I could fit warp core stabs if I really felt the need.

Or fit for kiting and stay aligned, the cyno guy can't light it if he is going over 500m/s, so he is going to have a delay if he bumps you then tries to light it. And they are frozen for 30 seconds after lighting a covops cyno, so they usually have a long point which only requires 1 stab to overcome.

The other thing is that they have to use the gates to get out out again, stay in fleet and figure out the most likely gate, if they do hotdrop then muster at that gate and see if you cant catch them in a bubble or the back side of the gate. Stealth bombers aren't well designed for a stand up fight, they are all alpha strike.

Fly ships that you can afford to replace, fleet up and be ready for a fight, dare him to get you. My .02
Mag's
Azn Empire
#54 - 2013-02-27 14:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Corez Fumimasa wrote:
Mags is happy to use this as a "do away with local" stump. It doesn't bother me because I agree with him there, but you are correct in that it is OT.
Actually I prefer the status quo. I've said this many times.

What I will argue against though, is the nerfing of cloaks without any change to the reason for AFKing. Local.

No one with any sense of balance, would advocate a complete removal of local, without a package of changes to take it's place. With this package, there should also be changes to cloaks. But we should also take into account WH space dwellers.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corez Fumimasa
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-02-27 14:38:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
This is unseemly, I didnt notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.
Good luck with that. She is a rather angry pilot and quick to insult, when she cannot argue against points raised.

Time will tell. The afk cyno threat is frustrating, some of this is venting some is just brainstorming solutions. Regardless I think the results of these threads often only have effect once we let them sit for a few days or weeks!

Did you have so many likes last week?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#56 - 2013-02-27 14:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Liriel Semah wrote:

Of course but as long as you can't dock or hide in a POS you will die.
Actually no, you won't. It's been done many times. It simply requires imagination and an understanding of game mechanics.

Liriel Semah wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Without local, AFKing is pointless.

No its not because the cloaker can still do the same things as before.
If he really wants the system dwellers knwoing that he is camping the system now he can announce it to them. Local isn't needed for this.
You say announcing his presence, but that requires him to not be AFK. The point you and others so often site, is the issue with them not even being in the house. You can't have it both ways here, either it's the AFK nature of this, or you simply want to nerf cloaks. So which is it?

Liriel Semah wrote:
Mag's wrote:

Oh and we are talking about AFKing here, not active game play. If you have issues with hot drops, Titan bridging or Black Ops, then make a thread about them. They are a separate mechanic and not dependant upon cloaks to work.

No because they all work together.
They may work together, but we are discussing the AFK part. What you talk about there, is the active part. Plus they do not require cloaks to work and as such are completely separate mechanics. Local on the other hand, is required for AFKing to work. It's rather disingenuous to say otherwise.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#57 - 2013-02-27 14:49:43 UTC
Corez Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
This is unseemly, I didnt notice you were CVA at first. I am going to edit my posts, and agree to disagree with you. Or perhaps discuss this in a more mild tone.
Good luck with that. She is a rather angry pilot and quick to insult, when she cannot argue against points raised.

Time will tell. The afk cyno threat is frustrating, some of this is venting some is just brainstorming solutions. Regardless I think the results of these threads often only have effect once we let them sit for a few days or weeks!

Did you have so many likes last week?
Oh I can understand they are upset, but I really think they should try and understand the actual issue.

It was just over 14k I believe.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corez Fumimasa
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-02-27 14:54:24 UTC
Mag's wrote:

Oh I can understand they are upset, but I really think they should try and understand the actual issue.

It was just over 14k I believe.


I had forgotten, seems like there was a big jump and I was concerned that I missed a good thread =-)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#59 - 2013-02-27 14:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Corez Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:

Oh I can understand they are upset, but I really think they should try and understand the actual issue.

It was just over 14k I believe.


I had forgotten, seems like there was a big jump and I was concerned that I missed a good thread =-)
hahaha nah not really, although I do find myself involved in a few good ones. Lol

There are a few regulars that seem to like my posts. But every now and then I post a doozy and get lots. Funny thing is, I really detest the whole like thing. Lol

Edit: Do you realise, you're posting on your alt?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#60 - 2013-02-27 15:06:53 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Corez Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:

Oh I can understand they are upset, but I really think they should try and understand the actual issue.

It was just over 14k I believe.


I had forgotten, seems like there was a big jump and I was concerned that I missed a good thread =-)
hahaha nah not really, although I do find myself involved in a few good ones. Lol

There are a few regulars that seem to like my posts. But every now and then I post a doozy and get lots. Funny thing is, I really detest the whole like thing. Lol

Edit: Do you realise, you're posting on your alt?


I think its handy to let someone know that you agree w them, or to support a position that you don't have time or need to comment on. But like any kind of public acknowledgement it can lead to...silly abuse and well you know.