These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Any corps out there use the ballot voting system?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#21 - 2013-02-24 19:26:28 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Sure. But shares can be traded freely.

So if your corp gives out shares to its members, there's nothing stopping one person from amassing 51% and owning the corp. Unless you keep 51% yourself, and then you might as well just not hand out shares since your members can never actually win a vote.

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1378711


So in the case of an investment corp 5 or 8 people each with equal shares and an agreement not to sell them would be good insurance against unlocking valuable items. I don't think Bob could have pulled that off if he needed to convince 2 or 4 other people to sell their shares to him on the promise that after he stole the BPO's he would pay them back.


Bobby had 200 shares.
4 trustees each had 200 shares.

He had one trustee in his pocket:
Bobby 400 shares
3 Trustees 600 shares.

He gets trustees to a prove the issue of 600 shares in order to bring the number of trustees up to 8 (inc Bobby) for increased security.

Bobby has 1000 shares
3 trustees have 600 shares

Bobby kicks them all.


Anyway, feel free to gamble all your corp assets on some unenforceable agreement not to sell shares. I'll be sitting here with all shares in all of my alt corps in their respective CEO's wallets.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#22 - 2013-02-24 20:52:49 UTC
Great story Ruby, thank you for walking me through it. I missed the forum link the first time you posted. I wonder what became of BadBobby's 850 billion ISK. I mean after pulling off that kind of heist what would you possibly do next!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#23 - 2013-02-24 21:15:39 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Great story Ruby, thank you for walking me through it. I missed the forum link the first time you posted. I wonder what became of BadBobby's 850 billion ISK. I mean after pulling off that kind of heist what would you possibly do next!


Ask him. He's still pretty active over on MD.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#24 - 2013-02-24 22:44:28 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Great story Ruby, thank you for walking me through it. I missed the forum link the first time you posted. I wonder what became of BadBobby's 850 billion ISK. I mean after pulling off that kind of heist what would you possibly do next!


Ask him. He's still pretty active over on MD.

Is it OK if I put you in my contacts list for those times when I need a great idea!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#25 - 2013-02-24 22:54:09 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Great story Ruby, thank you for walking me through it. I missed the forum link the first time you posted. I wonder what became of BadBobby's 850 billion ISK. I mean after pulling off that kind of heist what would you possibly do next!


Ask him. He's still pretty active over on MD.

Is it OK if I put you in my contacts list for those times when I need a great idea!


Whatever you want.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
343guilty1
#26 - 2013-02-24 23:44:53 UTC
Guise, cahlm doon. Shares are for paying dividends. I used to be in a corp that paid dividends to members, longer you were in corp more shares you got, bigger slice of isk you got. But alas it is an outdated system that also used to be a way to war dec. I was also in the only Investment corp that I saw be successful, where it acted as a real stock exchange corp. You would "Buy" shares and get paid out monthly based on how the corp was doing. But that was one corp out of the tens of thousands. It's an old system that I think needs to be revised.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#27 - 2013-02-25 00:15:45 UTC
Etidorhpa wrote:
Actually, a corporation (in the RL sense) is the only place I can think of where democracy might do some good. It would prevent golden parachutes and such at the very least. Not sure it would be better, just that it's the only situation where democracy would lead to less corruption instead of more.

LOL.

Guess some people have never heard of a shareholder vote.

Chairmen, CEOs, and directors are voted in and out on this basis all the time.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Etidorhpa
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-02-25 17:19:19 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Actually, a corporation (in the RL sense) is the only place I can think of where democracy might do some good. It would prevent golden parachutes and such at the very least. Not sure it would be better, just that it's the only situation where democracy would lead to less corruption instead of more.

LOL.

Guess some people have never heard of a shareholder vote.

Chairmen, CEOs, and directors are voted in and out on this basis all the time.


It hardly makes it "democratic" when private unelected, unaccountable individuals (rich/super rich) can control organisations that in turn control the resources of the world, e.g. via "free market" capitalism.

Joran and I were talking about the bigger picture. Democracy is touted as the best system -- rule of the people, by the people, for the people -- when in reality it's a plutocracy -- rule of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Having to possess shares is an exact example of this. Having to bribe politicians through "donations" is another example.

Most employees in traditional companies and corporations (excluding the everyone-gets-shares-as-pay start-up model) will never have a chance to vote in the AGM or affect major decisions with their puny shares.

Note that, I, personally, am not endorsing corporations / companies becoming "real" democracies. It's not effective. Yet there is probably a viable model that can deliver everyone the same chance to get to the the top if we start thinking about meritocracy and equal opportunities. This goes beyond the scope of this forum thread, however, as we're talking about politics.

The "best" should lead through a hierarchy of merit, instead of a hierarchy of my granddaddy left me $100 million dollars, or "I made lots of money so *deserve* to influence decisions that affect -everyone- in society."

I am the name of a book.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#29 - 2013-02-26 00:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Etidorhpa wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Actually, a corporation (in the RL sense) is the only place I can think of where democracy might do some good. It would prevent golden parachutes and such at the very least. Not sure it would be better, just that it's the only situation where democracy would lead to less corruption instead of more.

LOL.

Guess some people have never heard of a shareholder vote.

Chairmen, CEOs, and directors are voted in and out on this basis all the time.


It hardly makes it "democratic" when private unelected, unaccountable individuals (rich/super rich) can control organisations that in turn control the resources of the world, e.g. via "free market" capitalism.


That's actually the definition of democracy.

All members of a society (the society of shareholders in the case of a corporation, the society of citizens in the case of a country) are able to control the organization that represents their interest (the corporation, and the country's government, respectively) through a voting system. Nobody elects citizens, and citizens are as unaccountable as shareholders (moreso, actually, due to the fact that shareholder votes aren't always secret ballots, but most electoral ones are).

Quote:
Joran and I were talking about the bigger picture. Democracy is touted as the best system -- rule of the people, by the people, for the people -- when in reality it's a plutocracy -- rule of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Having to possess shares is an exact example of this. Having to bribe politicians through "donations" is another example.


Campaign finance is only important if the citizens voting do not research the positions of the candidates. In other words, if the votors did not allow themselves to be effected by advertising, candidates would have no interest in seeking nor accepting donations.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-02-26 06:37:13 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
That would imply that corps are a democracy. Which they are not.


But they can be set up as democracies. The tools are in place to do that. I was reading about historical pirates the other day, apparently the captain was an able master of the ship and often charismatic, but decisions were often made by vote in a very egalitarian nature.

I was just wondering if that command style had been applied in Eve and how effective it was.


You would be setting yourself up for a scam to get director rights, then your corp resources stolen.

The only reliable way to control corps is have all rights on the CEO or at a very small and trustworthy group of people.

But be my quest, try the democracy, tell us how it works.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Previous page12