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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

First post
Author
Isabella Thresher
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#501 - 2011-10-27 18:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Isabella Thresher
Adelphie wrote:

Edit - Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
Idea- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrial's a meaningful task
- Too much unused, yet claimed, space
- Lack of objectives for small gang pvp
IdeaIdea- Hard for people to actually enter nullsec due to pipe camps and bubbles

+1
Idea for the main issues

Quote:


Some of the counters suggested

- CCP Soundwave - Considering swapping drone drops for bounties
- Making moon mining arrays raidable (which would be great imo)
- Limiting alliance size
- Making the cost of sov indirectly related to activity within a system
- Changing gate mechanics from appearing 15km from a gate to 150km.
- Making the cost of sov inversely proportional


give small corps a chance to settle in 0.0. i don't care how. i want a heavily fragmented sov map, with hundrets of different small/med sized corps around. heavy sovmap fragmentation fuels a lot of conflict, provides lots of small scale pew pew, opportunity for "logging in and having a casual pvp experience", but it gives a meaning to what you do, more importantly, it gives you a reason to defend what you have claimed, because this is your small space in the big universe, you've raised your flag there and naturally you will want to keep it up.

nothing of whats going on right now in 0.0 is like that. fragment the sovmap, and see the true potential of this game rise and shine.
Hung TuLo
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#502 - 2011-10-27 19:23:14 UTC
Guys,

I have 1 more idea. Use the sov as a way of boosting the indys shields to the point that they cannot be easily destroyed.

Example if a person is mining or using a indy ship in their own sov. The ships boost goes from normal to +40ehp. Make Warp scramblers and disruptors are ineffective for industrials only. Once again this is only when the industrialists are in their sov.

This way its not the individual ship tha twill be able to attack and destroy you. It has to be a # of ships. This will also change the way that the afk cloaky has to operate.

I think that would solve a couple of the problems in NUll.

What do you think?

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI

arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#503 - 2011-10-27 19:32:33 UTC
what would bring me to null?

POS structures that have better benefits in Null than the benefits of High Sec Stations in regards to Manufacturing and Refining.
I am an industrialist, so naturally I would want a POS in null to exceed the refining capabilities of those in High-Sec. High-Sec promotes industrial capitalism and ease of access is rewarded with better refining times and more production slots.


arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#504 - 2011-10-27 19:33:17 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
Guys,

I have 1 more idea. Use the sov as a way of boosting the indys shields to the point that they cannot be easily destroyed.

Example if a person is mining or using a indy ship in their own sov. The ships boost goes from normal to +40ehp. Make Warp scramblers and disruptors are ineffective for industrials only. Once again this is only when the industrialists are in their sov.

This way its not the individual ship tha twill be able to attack and destroy you. It has to be a # of ships. This will also change the way that the afk cloaky has to operate.

I think that would solve a couple of the problems in NUll.

What do you think?



I think this would make botters VERY happy Straight
Avila Cracko
#505 - 2011-10-27 19:35:01 UTC
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
get rid of minerals from drones!


+1

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#506 - 2011-10-27 19:50:13 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
what would bring me to null?

POS structures that have better benefits in Null than the benefits of High Sec Stations in regards to Manufacturing and Refining.
I am an industrialist, so naturally I would want a POS in null to exceed the refining capabilities of those in High-Sec. High-Sec promotes industrial capitalism and ease of access is rewarded with better refining times and more production slots.


This

+ invention/copy/research slots

+actually nobody wants to baby sit while you deplete rocks for hours: give industrials/miners T3 exhumer but change mining system so bot's will not get even more rich than they already are

+BAN effectively and definitively bots, be it rating missioning or mining one, no more 1st advertisement so he can just swap/make a better bot, eliminate those once and for all has all other accounts related to the same player account name / IP / CC or whatever payment method

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Since people using them know the risks and alliances who clearly know who are they but don't say a word and go up to the point of exclude from alliance any one suspected of report, ban the alliance leaders corp ceo's and directors with the related bot account.

But this will never happen because suddenly Eve would be empty of players.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#507 - 2011-10-27 20:00:34 UTC
also, i have been bowling over a few ideas for FW and Pirate Warfare for Null.
Some like it, some don't.
I think its a good way to get more small to midsized alliances and corps in Null and will add a dynamic faction warfare system for taking SOV or if not taking SOV, clearing it.

the idea is more like a way to take SOV in a faction warfare environment, where all these corps and alliances have banded together under one flag to help NPC space take over SOV in systems with extremely low population and traffic. The new missions would be handed out by FW agents, similar to the FW system now, but exclusively for NULL.
(please note this will be an added feature, not a revamp of anything thats already in place)

so say for example you take a NULL FW mission from a FW agent in any station that has FW agents/offices. The NULL mission is a phased siege on a system to either remove the SOV claim from the holding corp/alliance and free it up. an option, that i would think would be interesting is once the system has been freed, the next stages of helping the NPC corp move in and claim the space. this would be done by the NPC FW agent giving mining missions, combat missions and distribution/delivery missions. mission rewards would be equivalent to those that you would receive for doing agent missions in high-sec, but with a purpose. deliveries of minerals in a hauling mission would pay for the haul, minerals would be put in an escrow/holding tank, where once the player delivers/deposits the minerals needed, the mission is updated for EVERYONE THAT HAS IT, this would not be an individual mission, it would be collaborative effort for everyone who has taken the mission. Once the NPC has received all the trit needed, they move on to the amount of pyrite needed, etc. Once all these minerals have been provided, that stage of the mission expires, players get their additional payouts and loyalty points/standings. and the next stage begins. building of Faction or NPC corp structures in NULL. Once all the structures have been built, anchored and activated, the NPC faction or Pirate NPC faction will claim SOV. The end result is a new NPC/Faction Null Sec system, still 0.0, where security status with the faction or NPC corp is based off your standings towards those entities. PvP will still occur naturally and this system WILL create an influx of players from all sorts of play styles to participate. Since the stages will be spaced out over time, it will also create a way for casual players to get involved.

Once the system is settled, and the player/corp or alliance standings have been awarded, the system begins to be populated by that NPC or Factions Ships, escalated by ship size based off of system SOV upgrades. BUT these ships are friendly (with appropriate standings) and will come to the aid of players in that system who are being attacked by hostiles. Much like concord but in reduced numbers. there will be NPCS patrolling belts, gates, stations, POS's and customs offices.

while engaged in FW in NULL the hard part is to decided whether or not CCP would want to allow for friendly/green PVP. I think that if it were allowed, that it would be counter productive. The idea and purpose of this system is a PVP and PVE mechanism that will promote cooperation among like minded players, a medium for exchange of ideas and interactions all for the common goal.

this removes and settles various complaints for some players who do not want to be part of a huge player alliance and forced to play by their rules. it creates dynamic PVE/PVP content that is ever changing, it's still player generated content because the players have to participate for the campaign to be successful, it allows for casual gaming for all avenues of play styles.
Venus Vermillion
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#508 - 2011-10-28 05:26:54 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.


For the love of all that is good in the world, please make this happen. Soon.
pussnheels
Viziam
#509 - 2011-10-28 08:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
MaiLina KaTar wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
It isn't only CCP that hasto do something to get more people into nullsec, the large powerblocs are partly to blame for this aswell

And should if they really want to become selfsufficient , become more open to other aspect of the game or rethink the concept that siize means everything
...

No. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Players are blobbing in nullsec because it is by far the most viable and efficient tactic. Eve's game mechanics foster such behaviour to the point where it's a prerequisite if you're looking to maintain presence in 0.0.
Since it's impossible for smaller entities to hide from and sidestep the big ones, there are only two options if you want to stay:

  1. Merge with a bigger group.
  2. Form an even larger group.

The absolute lack of any need to scout your surroundings and build infrastructure that allows you to monitor them condenses the "vast and open" space that 0.0 is supposed to be down to very few points of interest: Chokes and settlements. And on these POIs you can only be a successful defender or attacker if you bring more ships than the other party.

i do understand your point of view and i even agree under the current atmosphere
Icertainly do not hate the gamer i love it too much for it ,hating players never i might disagree but hatred is way to strong word

On the other hand you did wrote donw the main reason and problem of why so many people turn their back to nullsec

Merge with a bigger group.

For me it means that you have to give up your independence , your corp and alliance you ve been working hard for to create and to break all bonds with what you have build up over months and even year just to become part of the blob and where nobody will trust you because you the newest member or your corp is the newest member of the alliance and noway will anyone trust you or your corp

This is the problem and this is why so many people don't want to go , you can buff iullsec as much you like and nerf highlsec to death , you will never repoppulate nullsec that way aslong all the nullsec alliance keep up with their current attitude toward outsiders and nullsec

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#510 - 2011-10-28 12:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
I see a few reasons why 0.0 is in its state.

1- expensive to live
2- hard to get modules
3- renter entities cannot afford systems due to removal/change of the sanctums and havens. This was a major source of income. Since there are fewer systems now, the rental price per one of thse systems has increased dramatically. Even if you have one of those systems its not cost effective by any means hen you compare it to rental agreements.
4- perma cloakers 23 hours a day. Perma cloakers can make a system be worthless. Since the perma cloakers are invulnerable and there is no way of hunting them down even if you want to kill them, it has made many systems worthless. The effect of this is amplified if my point number "3" is also an issue.
5- some of the alliances have become monsters in size and what they can field. This is hard to protect from or even push away if you are a renter alliance.

Solve 3 points out of those and you will see more people come back to 0.0. Ignore the issue and it will remain the same.
bornaa
GRiD.
#511 - 2011-10-28 16:25:07 UTC
bump
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Madam Steele
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#512 - 2011-10-28 16:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Madam Steele
Hmm...why won't casual High-Sec folks come into 0.0?

Just read though it. Why would a casual player even bother, much less a lot of them?

Looking to explore but don't want to get my butt shot off....

Players keep players out of 0.0.

Just a few noticed comments...

"however null is full of politics. wh space is where it is at."

"*finds that its a carebear wanting to sneak into Nullsec space*"

"Be prepared to lose your ships and your independence, and your free time."

"Can some one say War Dec."
Cregg Neir
Doomheim
#513 - 2011-10-28 16:54:48 UTC
My alt's corp has lived in null for a few months in a couple of locations. But we are not big and we are not aligned with one of the superpowers so we were evicted by the recent DRF wars from our latest location. We've come back to high sec because we don't have the time to spend on the null sec game. It's too time intensive. Worrying about a pos 24 hours a day is not compatible with the place of a game in one's real life. It's really just that simple.

We like the game and we like null sec better than high sec but none of has the time or motivation that it takes to live where there are so many people who want to kill you and shoot your stuff and gather your tears and all those other things that Eve players love.

High risk for high reward is a good concept, but along with the high risk comes super high investment of one's time. There are other games in the universe. I like this one but I don't want to play only this game for the rest of my life. Most of the folks in my corp agree with me. Until there is a way to be in null sec that does not require constant anxiety about protecting our hard-earned assets (and I do mean constant, since the game never stops), we are happy to play around in high sec and leave null sec to the full-time players who are devoting their lives to whatever it is they are devoting their lives too, the sandbox, or pvp, or just being the nastiest jerk on the block.
Aquila Draco
#514 - 2011-10-28 17:38:53 UTC
Venus Vermillion wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.


For the love of all that is good in the world, please make this happen. Soon.



WOW... i need to agree with goon... Shocked
Cocomomo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2011-10-28 18:35:20 UTC
Redesign travel system, make gate travel east, fast and enjoyable.

If I have to spend half hour to null sec and then back, I am not doing it, simple as that.
Hossein Fahmideh
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2011-10-28 18:44:19 UTC
Cocomomo wrote:
Redesign travel system, make gate travel east, fast and enjoyable.


What about gate travel North, South and West ?
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#517 - 2011-10-28 19:13:32 UTC
Some thoughts on improving null that I didn't see offhand:

1) Increase entry systems from lowsec

2) add gates to have less "pipes" and more of a "web" to regions

3) increase wormhole activity directly from hisec to null

4) nonfocused interdiction nullifier module. So much whining over bubbles, put a module in that makes one immune to anchored bubbles (but not dictor or hic bubbles) at the expense of something, say a targetting delay.

5) more nullsec regions, space them out a bit by around 8LY or more to slow down cap deployment

6) continue with ship balancing

7) nerf hisec missions (already said countless times but it's a large factor)

8) better anoms and un-nerf sanctums

9) fix the local issue. you said long ago there were ideas to replace local with something and many suggestions were offered. Test them. I see some here that don't know into null that brag about how awesome W-space is.

10) when jumping through a gate, spawn randomly in the destination system- maybe on grid but n km away from the gate. Have it random.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Avila Cracko
#518 - 2011-10-29 06:36:56 UTC
bump

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#519 - 2011-10-29 06:49:46 UTC
Isabella Thresher wrote:
Adelphie wrote:

Edit - Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
Idea- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrial's a meaningful task
- Too much unused, yet claimed, space
- Lack of objectives for small gang pvp
IdeaIdea- Hard for people to actually enter nullsec due to pipe camps and bubbles

+1
Idea for the main issues

Quote:


Some of the counters suggested

- CCP Soundwave - Considering swapping drone drops for bounties
- Making moon mining arrays raidable (which would be great imo)
- Limiting alliance size
- Making the cost of sov indirectly related to activity within a system
- Changing gate mechanics from appearing 15km from a gate to 150km.
- Making the cost of sov inversely proportional


give small corps a chance to settle in 0.0. i don't care how. i want a heavily fragmented sov map, with hundrets of different small/med sized corps around. heavy sovmap fragmentation fuels a lot of conflict, provides lots of small scale pew pew, opportunity for "logging in and having a casual pvp experience", but it gives a meaning to what you do, more importantly, it gives you a reason to defend what you have claimed, because this is your small space in the big universe, you've raised your flag there and naturally you will want to keep it up.

nothing of whats going on right now in 0.0 is like that. fragment the sovmap, and see the true potential of this game rise and shine.


What you're asking for is almost impossible, I'm afraid. The only way to "fragment the sov map" politically is to do it physically as with W-space.

See here for more discussion about this explaining why: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7358&find=unread

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#520 - 2011-10-29 06:50:20 UTC
Aquila Draco wrote:
Venus Vermillion wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.


For the love of all that is good in the world, please make this happen. Soon.



WOW... i need to agree with goon... Shocked


Some things are just too obvious to disagree with.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016