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[CSM8] Ripard Teg for CSM8

First post First post
Author
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-02-23 18:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Wescro
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

Ganking is not being compared to slavery. The argument "I'm ganking you for your own good" is being compared to the argument "I'm enslaving these Negroes for their own goods". He's saying that in both situations the powerful impose 'good' on the weak.


He could have stated that as, a mental asylum involuntary commiting a patient for their own good. It would have made the same point, a strong party dictating to a weak party for their own good. Do you see how using slavery specifically, instead of the innumerable analogies that demonstrate the same power imbalance for the supposed good of the weak, he colors the powerful in such negative light?

I'll make an analogy, there are many people who state things that I disagree with. But to drive the point home, I disagree with Ripard like I disagree with yellow journalists. What!? I'm not calling anyone a yellow journalist! I was simply showing how much I disagree with him! How could anyone read that wrong?

Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

Here's the other controversial quote:

Ripard Teg wrote:
At the time, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, plus much proselytizing on how the victims could have prevented this fate (wearing a longer skirt, a higher neck line, and not so much perfume, perhaps?).


Same deal. In no way is the gank victim being compared to a **** victim. What is being compared is the argument "He should have tanked more" to the argument "She shouldn't have dressed in that fashion". Again, the point is that the powerful party (rapist, ganker) is imposing their own ideas of propriety (tanking, covering all skin) on the weak party (gank victim, **** victim). He's not equating the seriousness of each crime.


I agree that the victim or the severity of the crimes are not being compared, only the arguments being made by the parties. So what? It's still a trivialization of real life tragedies. When you play someone in chess, and they leave their King unguarded. If you then describe to them they shouldn't leave it unguarded. are you now making rapist apologia arguments? No, its freaking game and your supposed to fight, you are ALLOWED to dictate terms, the losers penalty is minuscule compared to ****. Making that argument at some level invites the reader to consider ganking comparable to ****, and that is insulting.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-02-23 18:18:00 UTC
you people still going on about some ******* comment? I hear worse every single day in this game.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#183 - 2013-02-23 18:24:14 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
you people still going on about some ******* comment? I hear worse every single day in this game.

Probably not from potential CSM candidates though, am I right?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#184 - 2013-02-23 18:54:19 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
I hear worse every single day in this game.


And that somehow makes it ok?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#185 - 2013-02-24 05:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
you people still going on about some ******* comment? I hear worse every single day in this game.

Probably not from potential CSM candidates though, am I right?


Would it be the wrong time to comment, that it looks like Jester most likely raped you guys with his posting, and you just want reparations to help you feel better, and get past the victimization.

Its alright, angry gankers, with (no pun inteded :) ) butt hurt.

Any reparation ISK Jester gives you, I will gladly double, that way your pain will go away twice as fast.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#186 - 2013-02-24 09:31:39 UTC
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
admiral root wrote:
*I* haven't claimed that you're advocating **** and slavery. What *I'm* saying is that if you think the two are in any way comparable to a miner's ship going boom, you're completely out of touch with reality. My question, which is right there for all to see, is how can someone so clueless be of any use to Eve players as part of the CSM?

TBH, I haven't seen anyone, anywhere say that you're an advocate of those awful things. You seem very hostile and defensive when asked a simple question. Is this also behaviour you'll exhibit if elected?


OK, I have no idea why Ripard hasn't stepped in to say this himself yet, but clearly somebody needs to because this is just getting tedious now.

Go back and read the post that started off this shitstorm. At no point in that post is there a comparison between the act of **** or enslavement and the act of suicide ganking or non-consensual wardecs (which you neglect to mention, in spite of that being the main focus of said post). The comparison is between people's attitudes to the victims of ganking and the victims of ****, with a tendency to jump to the conclusion that each victim invited attack with their actions, and a comparison between PvPers' attitude that EVE is at its core a PvP game and that undocking = PvP consent, with most of the dissent coming from industrialists who are their victims and the attitudes of 18th century slaveowners who believed that slavery was itself morally justified and the way the world was intended to work, with most of the dissent coming from the slaves who were their victims.

If you want to rake Ripard over the coals for making those comparisons between attitudes, that's a different matter entirely. Personally I think the provocative hyperbole served more to distract people from the questions he was trying to raise in the post than spread discussion, as the language used itself became the story and we end up with situations like this one where people either haven't read the post itself or missed everything apart from the bad words in their rush to point fingers and scream "He said what?!". On the other hand, I've read hundreds of thousands of other words by Ripard that weren't deliberately provocative to this extent, so I'm comfortable with the knowledge that that kind of hyperbole isn't his normal method of communication and presumably isn't how he'd approach interacting with CCP as a CSM.


Haha that's a really, really awful attempt to damage control and justify his horrific statements. Even with your reasoning - i.e. that attitudes rather than the acts themselves - it's absolutely unacceptable and offensive. To compare the attitude of someone who blows up a spaceship in a spaceship pew pew game to the attitude of wanting to enslave an entire race of people, or to brutalising women... it's just absolutely mental. It's ignorant and offensive.
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#187 - 2013-02-25 01:21:19 UTC
Until I get orders to the contrary from my overlords, Ripard is my #2.

Here's why. I like him. He strikes me as a reasonable kinda guy. He has a good mind for EvE and I think that when he gets some time to meet with James 315, nothing but good things will happen for EvE.

Unfortunately, Treboring (IMO CCP's unofficial-official canidate and our very own career politician) has already begun to put his hooks in him.

RESIST THE THEME PARK RIPARD! Best of Luck.

ps This message will most likely increase the frequency that I am team-killed by my own fleet-mates. Shocked

Between Ignorance and Wisdom

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#188 - 2013-02-25 04:19:26 UTC
John E Normus wrote:

ps This message will most likely increase the frequency that I am team-killed by my own fleet-mates. Shocked



But in the end, you will most likely be voting for trebor then?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#189 - 2013-02-25 04:38:25 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Haha that's a really, really awful attempt to damage control and justify his horrific statements. Even with your reasoning - i.e. that attitudes rather than the acts themselves - it's absolutely unacceptable and offensive. To compare the attitude of someone who blows up a spaceship in a spaceship pew pew game to the attitude of wanting to enslave an entire race of people, or to brutalising women... it's just absolutely mental. It's ignorant and offensive.


Well just send a report warning to the owners of the site Ripard uses or talk to them about the offensive poster, they allow to use their services. If you really feel he is just being offensive and offers nothing else.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Ripard Teg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-02-25 06:20:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
As far as I can tell from the minutes, CSM almost exclusively talks to CCP about how the game is designed. How then can you avoid being a junior game designer and still fill your roll?
Sorry, I did miss this question.

Having specific issues that I'd like to see addressed is mostly important for you as a voter to choose who you want to represent you on the CSM. When it comes to summits and the like, though, from what I've seen CCP of course has their own ideas about game development. Mostly, they want to know from the CSM what they believe are good about these things, bad about these things, or should be adjusted or tweaked about these things. Only rarely does a CSM member get the opportunity to push a specific agenda, and that's usually only when CCP is having a crisis of confidence. I don't see them having one of those right now...

admiral root wrote:
You seem very hostile and defensive when asked a simple question. Is this also behaviour you'll exhibit if elected?
No, I'm treating this particular question -- not you -- with the respect it deserves. But honestly, that is very little. It's a very silly question. If you have a serious question to ask me, I'll be very happy to answer it. I will treat serious questions seriously, and I will not respect poor questions. That's not being hostile and defensive. That's being professional, which is what I am.

Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
I wanted to ask about something that doesn't get the time it deserves. The Drone Regions, or I suppose more precisely the half-finished state of Rogue Drones. My question is basicly how do you think they should be fixed, and do you think CCP is paying them enough attention?
You've hit it on the head: the drone regions are only half-finished. That said, CCP recognizes the issue because we just recently saw the addition of (mostly bad) drone officer mods. If drones are going to give standard bounties like any other rat, then the space should be treated the same as every other part of space. I'm curious, though: assuming you live there, what do you think are the major issues with the drone regions? Because I'll freely admit that other than rare roams into the area, I'm not all that familiar with this part of New Eden.

John E Normus wrote:
RESIST THE THEME PARK RIPARD! Best of Luck.
Thanks! And yeah, theme parks, ugh. EVE Online was my first MMO. I have never played WoW. My first serious experience with the theme park mentality was playing Guild Wars 2 last year. Oi. Yeah. NO interest in that concept at ALL.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#191 - 2013-02-25 06:34:07 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Second, living in w-space these days is just horrific. Partially this is the POS issue, but honestly, that's only part of the issue. Security, pods, logistics, and having a market where you live are all factors. The POS revamp is only going to solve some of these issues. I've been watching the F&I threads on this pretty closely and I don't think anyone's come up with the magic bullet yet. My own thinking is leaning toward encouraging CCP to let w-space dwellers place outpost eggs in w-space as an interim step.


Not familiar enough with the Outpost mechanic, but I assume this includes docking.

Docking is a terrible idea in w-space. It is the one area of space without ******* docking games. Most in wormholes believe it needs to stay that way - find ways to have the same functions without docking. If the "egg" you mention will do that, I'm with you. Maybe describe the concept a bit further on blog or in thread, along with a primer on Outposts for those of us not heavily familiar with sov null mechanics?

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Agnar Volta
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-02-25 06:54:21 UTC
Agnar Volta wrote:
CCP is bringing to their development a whole new vocabulary. Words like lurkers, enablers, small gang leaders, etc are replacing words like carebear, pirate, nullseccer etc...

I would like you to expand a bit on your understanding of these words. In a old post in your blog you gave some insight of your understanding, but as this new vocabulary will be so important in the conversation with the Devs, specially Seagull and Unifex I think it deserves for further delving into.

Also I have the feeling that not only the CSM but some old school devs might have problem to start thinking in this new way.

Thank you in advance for your time if you decide to answer to my query.



I don't know if this question got ignore because is in the middle of the tread or if is something that you are not interested in answering, so I'll just post again in the hope that you just missed.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#193 - 2013-02-25 12:28:20 UTC
rodyas wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Haha that's a really, really awful attempt to damage control and justify his horrific statements. Even with your reasoning - i.e. that attitudes rather than the acts themselves - it's absolutely unacceptable and offensive. To compare the attitude of someone who blows up a spaceship in a spaceship pew pew game to the attitude of wanting to enslave an entire race of people, or to brutalising women... it's just absolutely mental. It's ignorant and offensive.


Well just send a report warning to the owners of the site Ripard uses or talk to them about the offensive poster, they allow to use their services. If you really feel he is just being offensive and offers nothing else.


Sorry, why would I do that? I find it offensive and unnecessary, but thats not a reason to talk to his webhost or anything about it. He's free to be as offensive and stupid as he so desires, I'm just going to point out why it makes him a bad candidate and a bad person
Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
#194 - 2013-02-25 16:41:54 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
rodyas wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Haha that's a really, really awful attempt to damage control and justify his horrific statements. Even with your reasoning - i.e. that attitudes rather than the acts themselves - it's absolutely unacceptable and offensive. To compare the attitude of someone who blows up a spaceship in a spaceship pew pew game to the attitude of wanting to enslave an entire race of people, or to brutalising women... it's just absolutely mental. It's ignorant and offensive.


Well just send a report warning to the owners of the site Ripard uses or talk to them about the offensive poster, they allow to use their services. If you really feel he is just being offensive and offers nothing else.


Sorry, why would I do that? I find it offensive and unnecessary, but thats not a reason to talk to his webhost or anything about it. He's free to be as offensive and stupid as he so desires, I'm just going to point out why it makes him a bad candidate and a bad person


So you're offended. So what?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#195 - 2013-02-25 22:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Ripard Teg wrote:
I'm curious, though: assuming you live there, what do you think are the major issues with the drone regions?

Well IRC got the boot about a month ago, but unless CCP made some really secret and very radical changes in that time, I think what I'm about to say will hold water.

The biggest things I can think of are:

- Lack of sites in general (Drones and Angels for comparision) and lack of good sites specifically. Only 1-3, depending on who you ask, are any good.
- No Ladar/Mag sites.
- Terrible salvage. Drone Hordes (Sanctum equivalent) give about as much as a pirate L3.
- No Hidden, Forsaken, Forlorn versions of anoms.
- No Faction loot. Excepting 'Augmented'/'Integrated' drone BPCs which are pretty junk.

Fawn Tailor wrote:
Out of interest, what have you done about the scourge of botting in Eve lately?

Nothing. Not being apart of Team Security though, I don't see how this is relevant.

Fawn Tailor wrote:
One of the difficulties we face is that it's almost impossible to tell an AFK miner from a bot.

I think this helps illustrate my point a bit. Now I want to preface this with any bot gotten rid is good, end of story. However, what I was driving at that any bots that are banned due to New Order actions are completely incidental to the actions themselves.

This is also indicative of my real problem with the New Order. It's not the ganking or the griefing or the protection racket or the God awful RP. I'm not even that bothered by y'all trying to get someone who wants to apparently destroy the game on the CSM. It's the pissing on my head and calling is rain that I find offensive. You guys aren't really helping any miners, intentionally anyway, you're just getting cheap kills. Which is perfectly fine, but call a spade a ******* spade.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#196 - 2013-02-25 22:43:00 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
It's the pissing on my head and calling is rain that I find offensive.

Wait... Who're you again? Does the New Order **** on your head?
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#197 - 2013-02-25 22:47:57 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
It's the pissing on my head and calling is rain that I find offensive.

Wait... Who're you again? Does the New Order **** on your head?

So we're playing the I'm more relevant than you game now? If so I concede. If you were just intentionally misinterpreting an idiom to make a weak joke then I guess that's cool or whatever.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-02-25 22:52:49 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Which is perfectly fine, but call a spade a ******* spade.


Why we gotta be racist?

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec

Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#199 - 2013-02-25 22:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Vin King wrote:
Why we gotta be racist?

Gotta fill the time between domestic violence with something.

P.S. Vis is comically misinterpreting an idiom a lot better that you Kainotomiu. You should leave the jokes to him I think.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#200 - 2013-02-26 01:50:25 UTC
Despite my general inflammatory attitude and borderline trollish behavior...

I believe I have finally found a CSM candidate worth voting for (if he is true to his word).

A person who is supportive of all playstyles equally has some common sense and the anti-elitism is quite refreshing.

I do have a question thus before I cast my vote certain...

Should CCP cater to gaining new players into the game? I don't mean government handouts of free isk in order to get new players started, but rather creating a more "newbie friendly" environment in hopes that subscription numbers will rise?

And to add on that question, are subscription numbers important to you? As in, do you feel like we should just keep the numbers small and EVE a niche, or would it be possible to expand EVE to persons once thought not part of the target audience thereby possibly increasing CCP revenues and theoretical development funds?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server