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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2481 - 2013-02-23 07:26:09 UTC
If the medium and small V requirements were removed from the large tech 2, then in their place could be added a second side gunnery skill required at 5, for instance large autocannon spec might require both motion prediction 5 and trajectory analysis 5 instead of only motion prediction 5. Medium spec skills might require two of these at 4, and smalls might require two of them at 3.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
To mare
Advanced Technology
#2482 - 2013-02-23 09:08:16 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
To mare wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Except that the cyclone can choose it's damage type.

the difference between the drake and the cyclone with not-kinetic missile is smaller than you think especially because the drake can make a use of its lows while the cyclone have so **** fittings that it cant fit more than 2 BCS if you wanna use the active tanking bonus


It fits perfectly using the right (medium) shield booster. Not the ships fault if you have to fit oversized modules. Oh wait...

oh thank you very much for the suggestion
still i can fit a medium shield booster on a merlin with everything else i need and no fitting mods, and you tell me on a battlecruiser i cant fit anything bigger than that?

so i guess the drake should be rebalanced to be able to fit only medium shield extender...
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2483 - 2013-02-23 09:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Floydy
How bad are your fittings skills? :s Or are you trying to do something really odd?

You can fit 3x BCU, Large ASB, 5x HAM, 2x medium neuts and most other mods you could want onto a Cyclone easily! You don't even need to start using meta4 items instead of T2 for some mods.
For example:

[Cyclone, Hamtastic]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5


I'm really liking the new improved Battlecruisers. Some nice variation in what you can fly now :)
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2484 - 2013-02-23 11:21:47 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Oghedron wrote:
Hi Fozzie,

Is it possible for the brutix to get 11 more powergrid?

The hurricane and harbinger can both fit 1600 plates, mwd and a full rack of their largest guns. The harbinger can also fit a med. cap booster while the hurricane only needs a small. The ferox can fit a full rack of ions, a mwd, a medium cap booster and an equivalent shield tank (10k higher than the armor, but larger sig).

The brutix cannot fit a mwd, med. cap booster, 1600 plate and a full rack of ions. It has to use a small cap booster. The 9 powergrid would allow it to fit a meta cap booster but not a neut in its place.

All the other ships can use a t2 cap booster.

Thanks and great job!

Shield tank it, you can pull almost 1k DPS shield tanked.


can you mail me or post your fit that sounds awesome. Big smile

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2485 - 2013-02-23 11:33:41 UTC
Fit a full rack of T2 Heavy Neutron Blasters, 3x magstabs and a set of Hammerheads. 1000dps without overheat :)
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2486 - 2013-02-23 14:48:55 UTC
Mundi Kundoni wrote:
Quick question for you Mr Fozzy!

With the skill changes you have made it abundantly clear that your intention is to not force people to train a useless skill in order to fly a ship (ie bs5 for a carrier) which is awesome! This obvious time sink has always troubled me - but my question is this will the same thinking end up being applied to gunnery? For example I'm thinking of training a vargur pilot for plexing - great! But in order to get my nice shiny t2 repeating artilleries ill have to first train small and medium auto cannons to v plus their specialisations to iv - both of which are skills I would never use on said pilot. Will changes be made to this to put gunnery support skills in place of this wasted SP and training time?

Love n hugs


Well the same applies across the board with items only needing lv4 instead of lv5 to use T2 items like T2 mwd's even though it is a specialization being T2, although it's no better than meta 4 as is common

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2487 - 2013-02-25 11:58:23 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Oghedron wrote:
Hi Fozzie,

Is it possible for the brutix to get 11 more powergrid?

The hurricane and harbinger can both fit 1600 plates, mwd and a full rack of their largest guns. The harbinger can also fit a med. cap booster while the hurricane only needs a small. The ferox can fit a full rack of ions, a mwd, a medium cap booster and an equivalent shield tank (10k higher than the armor, but larger sig).

The brutix cannot fit a mwd, med. cap booster, 1600 plate and a full rack of ions. It has to use a small cap booster. The 9 powergrid would allow it to fit a meta cap booster but not a neut in its place.

All the other ships can use a t2 cap booster.

Thanks and great job!

Shield tank it, you can pull almost 1k DPS shield tanked.


can you mail me or post your fit that sounds awesome. Big smile


Neutrons with Void, dual extenders and 3 magstabs ought to do it, fill in the blanks after that.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Nova Satar
Pator Tech School
#2488 - 2013-02-25 13:13:39 UTC
Typical CCP lol...

New Brutix is out with it's revamped slots and new armour mods to compliment, yet this thread is still full of shield fits for it.

So many ships with a bonus nobody cares about! I guess when the Typhoon is fixed the redundant projectile bonus will be switched for energy turret cap use or something
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#2489 - 2013-02-25 18:24:40 UTC
Nova Satar wrote:
Typical CCP lol...

New Brutix is out with it's revamped slots and new armour mods to compliment, yet this thread is still full of shield fits for it.

So many ships with a bonus nobody cares about! I guess when the Typhoon is fixed the redundant projectile bonus will be switched for energy turret cap use or something


I 1v1'd with an alliance mate who expected the new AAR to be all whizzy when used on the new Brutix. He set up a dual AAR/T2 rep combo, ions in the highs and all the usual resist and damage control fittings to go with. He then took a standard exile. He rigged with 2 rigs for rep amount and one for rep speed.

I fitted a neutron Brutix with 2 mag stabs, 2 TEs, and a tank consisting of 2 LSE and rigs for anti-em, enti-therm, and extender and a damage control.

We started at about 5km range.

I used a flight of warrior IIs, he used a flight of hammerhead IIs.

I won at 90% structure remaining.


Armour repair is still a joke.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2490 - 2013-02-25 20:15:42 UTC
I'm saying the new ancillary armor repairer would work fine if it could run a lot of cycles before reloading, and then reload quickly. That way, combined with the small size of nanite repair paste, the armor repper could be made to work its much smaller bonus for long periods of time. Then it would have its own niche without competing with the ancillary shield booster.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2491 - 2013-02-26 01:19:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm saying the new ancillary armor repairer would work fine if it could run a lot of cycles before reloading, and then reload quickly. That way, combined with the small size of nanite repair paste, the armor repper could be made to work its much smaller bonus for long periods of time. Then it would have its own niche without competing with the ancillary shield booster.
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Galatea Galilei
Summa Universalia
#2492 - 2013-02-26 04:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Galatea Galilei
Nova Satar wrote:
New Brutix is out with it's revamped slots and new armour mods to compliment, yet this thread is still full of shield fits for it.

Yeah I was more concerned about the Myrmidon in the "Armor Tanking 1.5" thread but the same principle applies. Active armor tanking is so much less effective than shield tanking that even with the hull bonus a Myrm can't tank as much sustained DPS with an armor tank as it can with a passive shield tank. The fact that it can then fit three drone damage amps as well is just adding insult to injury. The hull bonus isn't so much useless as actively harmful, as it encourages people to fit the ship poorly when they mistakenly think they'll get a better tank by following what the hull bonus suggests. It was bad enough when I started the game a bit over a year ago -- back then there was no drone damage amp, so being fooled by the ship description just left you with an inferior tank, but didn't affect your dps at all. But now you nerf both your tanking and your dps by trying to utilize the hull bonus. New players not using EFT just don't have a clue how badly they're hurting themselves...
Nova Satar
Pator Tech School
#2493 - 2013-02-26 10:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Satar
The problem is i'm honestly not sure is an AAR/REP combo is better than having just 2 reps. The AAR isn't actually that much better, all this talk of 3 times better, then 2.25x better, it's not at all., becuase who is using standard t1 reps?!

I would rather have 2 standard t2 reps, with sustained repping for aslong as i have cap, over having a very slightly better tank for a very short amount of time that completely goes to **** when it needs to reload.

I've said it before and ill say it again. ACTIVE TANKS ARE FOR STAYING POWER! Not for burst tanks!! Thats what plates are for!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2494 - 2013-02-26 11:49:57 UTC
Nova Satar wrote:
The problem is i'm honestly not sure is an AAR/REP combo is better than having just 2 reps. The AAR isn't actually that much better, all this talk of 3 times better, then 2.25x better, it's not at all., becuase who is using standard t1 reps?!

I would rather have 2 standard t2 reps, with sustained repping for aslong as i have cap, over having a very slightly better tank for a very short amount of time that completely goes to **** when it needs to reload.

I've said it before and ill say it again. ACTIVE TANKS ARE FOR STAYING POWER! Not for burst tanks!! Thats what plates are for!


Heres to make it even worse.
Large Reppers
Overheated T2. 880 Repped over 12.75 Seconds. 69.01/sec.
AAR. 1250 Repped over 15 seconds. 83.33/sec.
The AAR is a bare 20% better than an overheated T2 for burst tanking

Now.... yes, you 'can' overheat the AAR also, but I did this comparison for the following reason.
If I overheat pulse my T2 rep, I then shut it off every once in a while to repair it with nanite paste, during which time I get no reps.
If I run my AAR normally, I shut it off every once in a while to reload it with nanite paste.

So for burst tank, an Overheated T2 vs an AAR is a more appropriate comparision than a T2 running normally, as both consume nanite paste at that point, and require shutting off periodically.

So.... what does this mean, it means that unless it takes 60 seconds to repair the T2 with nanite paste from overheat damage of 90 seconds of cycles, The T2 pulsed in overheat cycles will rep MORE than the AAR. And probably use LESS nanite paste to do so in this manner, as well as maybe being sustainable for more than 90 seconds of overheating. (Depending on skills).
Of course, since I can also use as many T2's like this as I want, I can alternate my T2 dual fit like this, while I can only single fit an AAR....
Major win, T2.
Nova Satar
Pator Tech School
#2495 - 2013-02-26 11:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Satar
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted


Apparently very little

The only way i can see these working is in combo with buffer ships. A buffer fit hyperion with a single AAR seems interesting
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2496 - 2013-02-26 15:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Oghedron wrote:
Hi Fozzie,

Is it possible for the brutix to get 11 more powergrid?

The hurricane and harbinger can both fit 1600 plates, mwd and a full rack of their largest guns. The harbinger can also fit a med. cap booster while the hurricane only needs a small. The ferox can fit a full rack of ions, a mwd, a medium cap booster and an equivalent shield tank (10k higher than the armor, but larger sig).

The brutix cannot fit a mwd, med. cap booster, 1600 plate and a full rack of ions. It has to use a small cap booster. The 9 powergrid would allow it to fit a meta cap booster but not a neut in its place.

All the other ships can use a t2 cap booster.

Thanks and great job!

Shield tank it, you can pull almost 1k DPS shield tanked.


can you mail me or post your fit that sounds awesome. Big smile



Not an uber one but still

[Brutix, Gankalol]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
[empty high slot]

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5

1064DPS 1232 m/s - guns+mwd OH = 1200DPS and 1751 m/s - I didn't called it gankalol for nothing ;)

Edit: forgot about the EHP: 41K this should be enough with such dps to take over a lot of targets.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
PROMETEUS PRIME
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2497 - 2013-02-27 11:11:55 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
PROMETEUS PRIME wrote:
Here is a message for you CCP, you are ship balancing ppls out of the game here and you are doing it in a fast pace too...
Grats on that, if that was the intention i say you have succeded fairly well.

I have been in this game now for years and i have enjoyed every minutte of it too...that have now changed massivly
and if this **** you guys are pulling right now is to continue, i know for sure 5 accounts going out of this game and probably another 50- 60 of them with mine. These are for your information all payed with real cash and not plexed. Just so you guys get this, you have pissed of alot of ppls lately and quite a few of them goes years back in the game.

So a final word, i am going to run my accounts til til they expire this spring and in that time i will see if i find it
remotly interesting to continue, this allso counts for alot oif the ppls i play the game with everyday in here.

Pull your head out of your ass and wake up CCP

Maybe you can graduate someday from the school of applied knowledge. Either that or post with your main.Straight

I'm not happy with the BC rebalance. Frigates and Cruisers were fairly well done. Although still problems in those ship classes. But the BC rebalance is leaving a Drake domination in place. And the second place competitor will now be the Prophecy instead of the Hurricane. But at least I'm not posting with an npc corp alt and qq-ing about it.


Reason why i am posting witt A alt is that the previous 2 times i have been in here bitching about anything in regards of the game, we got WDed. WE are a all out industry corp and started to build a plan to enter into some PVP close to a year ago. All plans was comming nicely togeather up til just before x-mas. All what we now have done and planned for is out the window, and really no point of continuing on. So CCP have trown out a year of gaming for pretty much the entire corp and gotten them to the point that EVE isn't the sameanymore. Ppls are considering to leave the game forever. That **** ain't funny after all these years.
Trying to build a corp with the same guys for years and do longterm planning like we have is a pain and it is timeconsuming
in masses. When the game developers then comes in and stomp all of your work in a single sweep kind of pisses ppls of.
I would gladly enter with my main in here but since we are now without any ships that makes any sence anymore we can't even ******* defend ourselfs either. hence the ALT.
Sorry for anoying you with my alt but alt or not my opinion of the game is still the same and won't change.

And CCP, have fun on fanfest. You have lost 6 guys for this years event.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2498 - 2013-02-27 12:13:19 UTC
PROMETEUS PRIME wrote:

I would gladly enter with my main in here but since we are now without any ships that makes any sence anymore we can't even ******* defend ourselfs either. hence the ALT.



The people who are attacking you have EXACTLY the same tool set as you. Your logic that you can't defend yourself against people who can only use the same stuff as you has no logic. There is a lot of Darwinism in EvE. The term "Adapt or Die" works very well.


Also, Can I haz all your stuff and the stuff the 6 other accounts had?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2499 - 2013-02-27 16:43:09 UTC
PROMETEUS PRIME wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
PROMETEUS PRIME wrote:
Here is a message for you CCP, you are ship balancing ppls out of the game here and you are doing it in a fast pace too...
Grats on that, if that was the intention i say you have succeded fairly well.

I have been in this game now for years and i have enjoyed every minutte of it too...that have now changed massivly
and if this **** you guys are pulling right now is to continue, i know for sure 5 accounts going out of this game and probably another 50- 60 of them with mine. These are for your information all payed with real cash and not plexed. Just so you guys get this, you have pissed of alot of ppls lately and quite a few of them goes years back in the game.

So a final word, i am going to run my accounts til til they expire this spring and in that time i will see if i find it
remotly interesting to continue, this allso counts for alot oif the ppls i play the game with everyday in here.

Pull your head out of your ass and wake up CCP

Maybe you can graduate someday from the school of applied knowledge. Either that or post with your main.Straight

I'm not happy with the BC rebalance. Frigates and Cruisers were fairly well done. Although still problems in those ship classes. But the BC rebalance is leaving a Drake domination in place. And the second place competitor will now be the Prophecy instead of the Hurricane. But at least I'm not posting with an npc corp alt and qq-ing about it.


Reason why i am posting witt A alt is that the previous 2 times i have been in here bitching about anything in regards of the game, we got WDed. WE are a all out industry corp and started to build a plan to enter into some PVP close to a year ago. All plans was comming nicely togeather up til just before x-mas. All what we now have done and planned for is out the window, and really no point of continuing on. So CCP have trown out a year of gaming for pretty much the entire corp and gotten them to the point that EVE isn't the sameanymore. Ppls are considering to leave the game forever. That **** ain't funny after all these years.
Trying to build a corp with the same guys for years and do longterm planning like we have is a pain and it is timeconsuming
in masses. When the game developers then comes in and stomp all of your work in a single sweep kind of pisses ppls of.
I would gladly enter with my main in here but since we are now without any ships that makes any sence anymore we can't even ******* defend ourselfs either. hence the ALT.
Sorry for anoying you with my alt but alt or not my opinion of the game is still the same and won't change.

And CCP, have fun on fanfest. You have lost 6 guys for this years event.



What exactly has happened that ruined your plans to PVP? Ships are better balanced now, EVE has more perfectly viable ships than ever during my time. I have more fantastic ships than I have time to fly.

Oh and I have a similar story, btw. Almost exaclty one year ago we had this idea of forming our own corp, move into wormholes and do some pvp. Setting up shop in a C3 and getting things rolling took two weeks, then we scored our first kill, and we've been having awesome time every day since that.


.
Fabio Khanid-El
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2500 - 2013-02-27 16:58:14 UTC
I don't see how the Harbinger rebalancing was a buff... I deal less dps now and have less armor with my harb.

I might just throw it in the trash bin now.