These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The solution to cloaky campers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-02-24 11:14:09 UTC
And exactly why should you feel safe in there? You know you are at null right? Where everything goes, you are supposed to be at constant risk in there but no, with the way current alliances and coalitions you are usually more safe bearing in your null than on highsec and rolling on isk...

And when there is single threat you start screaming more than all the highsec bears combined? :D
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#82 - 2013-02-24 13:18:02 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
And exactly why should you feel safe in there? You know you are at null right? Where everything goes, you are supposed to be at constant risk in there but no, with the way current alliances and coalitions you are usually more safe bearing in your null than on highsec and rolling on isk...

And when there is single threat you start screaming more than all the highsec bears combined? :D


Counter argument.... why should the cloaked up ship feel safe when hes cloaked?

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#83 - 2013-02-24 17:39:14 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:

Counter argument.... why should the cloaked up ship feel safe when hes cloaked?


Because is just how covert ops is designed. Is not safety, it's the opportunity to decide if and when pick up a figth, is pretty much the only advantage they have. And this is fully balanced by other severe limitations and weakness this class of ship has.

They're designed to deeply infiltrate enemy territories and spy or ambush. If this make your space unsafe and uncomfortable , well, guess what: it's just what they're designed for![/u]

It's like to whine cause missiles hurts or rats attack you!

AFK question is in no way related to this. Beside the cases in violation of the EULA (and for sure cannot be when one is cloacked!) I go AFK anytime, anywhere and in any ship I want. In a POS, in station, in a frigate, with cloack on or off, with AB on or off, on a gate, in a safe spot... For as long as I want: It's nobody's business.

If my being AFK is a problem for you... then this is YOUR problem. We cannot nerf EVE gameplay to match individuals' psychological problems.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#84 - 2013-02-24 18:55:17 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
And exactly why should you feel safe in there? You know you are at null right? Where everything goes, you are supposed to be at constant risk in there but no, with the way current alliances and coalitions you are usually more safe bearing in your null than on highsec and rolling on isk...

And when there is single threat you start screaming more than all the highsec bears combined? :D


Counter argument.... why should the cloaked up ship feel safe when hes cloaked?

AFK Cloaking™ has all the risk and reward potential equal to someone who is logged off. As being logged off is considered balanced, it is hard to complain about AFK Cloaking™ since it uses an established precedent that is so widely accepted.

Perhaps the misuse of Local Chat's Amazing Intel™ is the real problem.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#85 - 2013-02-24 20:03:00 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
And exactly why should you feel safe in there? You know you are at null right? Where everything goes, you are supposed to be at constant risk in there but no, with the way current alliances and coalitions you are usually more safe bearing in your null than on highsec and rolling on isk...

And when there is single threat you start screaming more than all the highsec bears combined? :D


Counter argument.... why should the cloaked up ship feel safe when hes cloaked?


Why should you feel safe when you dock/sit inside pos shields the second a non blue enters local?
Hurtini Hilitari
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-02-24 20:24:34 UTC
Introduce a new module, to be fitted to Titan's only, that will jam any cloaking devices system wide for 5 minutes. But make it so that the Titan cannot move for 5 minutes either.
methosbhunter
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-02-24 20:41:05 UTC
someone had the idea of fuel requirements to sustain the cloak and this was almost a year ago and to this day i personally feel this is the best idea of them all and the solution to the issue a dedicated bay able to hold no more then 12 hrs of material to maintain the cloak.. material easy to make requiring trit and morphite to make 100units enough to last 10hrs at 10 units a hr consumed the weight of the material should be in balance of the minerals used also should be heavy enough to be ineffiecent to carry in local cargohold only in dedicated bay..

this would require a cloaky hauler to follow the cloaky ship for sustained longer periods out in hostile space but also require them both to decloak at some point to restock at worst you will get blockade runners cloaking you into your system for the cargohold to run for long periods lol
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#88 - 2013-02-24 20:48:07 UTC
simpler solution, give cloaks a fuel requirement, like heavy water, make them use 1 per cycle, allow them to store 1k units or something. boom they can't hang around AFK, at least after so long they would have to travel to get more fuel.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-02-24 20:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSkeptic
methosbhunter wrote:
someone had the idea of fuel requirements to sustain the cloak and this was almost a year ago and to this day i personally feel this is the best idea of them all and the solution to the issue a dedicated bay able to hold no more then 12 hrs of material to maintain the cloak.. material easy to make requiring trit and morphite to make 100units enough to last 10hrs at 10 units a hr consumed the weight of the material should be in balance of the minerals used also should be heavy enough to be ineffiecent to carry in local cargohold only in dedicated bay..

this would require a cloaky hauler to follow the cloaky ship for sustained longer periods out in hostile space but also require them both to decloak at some point to restock at worst you will get blockade runners cloaking you into your system for the cargohold to run for long periods lol


It probably wasn't implemented because it's a terrible idea.

Cloaks aren't broken so no change is required

Remove local and this 'problem' goes away

...

Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#90 - 2013-02-24 20:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
Hurtini Hilitari wrote:
Introduce a new module, to be fitted to Titan's only, that will jam any cloaking devices system wide for 5 minutes. But make it so that the Titan cannot move for 5 minutes either.



I asume this is like the POS Cynosural Field Jammer, where it wont work on Covert Cynosural Field Generators, if you are suggesting the proposed module affects Covert Ops Cloaks aswell as normal Cloaks, no-one will support this idea.

EDIT: As for making Cloaks use fuel, F U C K O F F

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Hurtini Hilitari
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-02-24 21:05:56 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
the proposed module affects Covert Ops Cloaks aswell as normal Cloaks


yeah it would affect covops cloaks

Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
no-one will support this idea.


nobody would be forced to risk their Titan for the reward of decloaking everything in the system so why not?
Vicata Heth
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#92 - 2013-02-24 22:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicata Heth
You're right guys. You should be allowed to sit in system cloaked all day with 100% safety, while not even in the same house as your computer. Any attempts to balance this are the work of noobs, carebears, scrubs, or the devil himself. This should totally be a one sided mechanic, and there should be no way to counter it. I mean what kind of idiot would suggest that the game devs add rock to counter scissors in a game largely based on rock/paper/scissors mechanics?

Blasphemy.

The best part is my solution requires no added mechanics. No counter to cloaking devices. All it adds is a feature that a smart player can use to his advantage, to negate the effects of an afk cloaky camper. If he's at his keyboard though, he is still just as effective as before.

I'm sorry you can't find any other way to get kills but to sit in system all day, cloaked, afk, and take advantage of a broken mechanic. You are using valuable server resources that could be used by others, who actually play this game.

In other words: Stop wasting valuable air.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-02-24 22:11:03 UTC
Attempting to fix something that isn't actually broken is terrible game design. This will never fly because the "AFK" Cloaking profession isn't broken, thus no fix is necessary nor wise.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Mag's
Azn Empire
#94 - 2013-02-24 22:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Vicata Heth wrote:
You're right guys. You should be allowed to sit in system cloaked all day with 100% safety, while not even in the same house as your computer. Any attempts to balance this are the work of noobs, carebears, scrubs, or the devil himself. This should totally be a one sided mechanic, and there should be no way to counter it. I mean what kind of idiot would suggest that the game devs add rock to counter scissors in a game largely based on rock/paper/scissors mechanics?

Blasphemy.

The best part is my solution requires no added mechanics. No counter to cloaking devices. All it adds is a feature that a smart player can use to his advantage, to negate the effects of an afk cloaky camper. If he's at his keyboard though, he is still just as effective as before.

I'm sorry you can't find any other way to get kills but to sit in system all day, cloaked, afk, and take advantage of a broken mechanic. You are using valuable server resources that could be used by others, who actually play this game.

In other words: Stop wasting valuable air.
If you want to use the 100% safe card, then you must apply it to both sides.
Also cloaks already have counters, but obviously not ones you deem good enough.

The trouble is you asking to nerf cloaks, yet they are not the cause of AFKing.

Oh and the whole valuable server resources argument, is ridiculous. Plus it's not your place, to tell someone else how they use their account.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#95 - 2013-02-24 23:27:05 UTC
Can I get a TL;DR breakdown on the split here; I mean is it everyone against the OP or are there a few people who agree with him?

When an AFK cloacker comes into system I try to fleet up with him, if he's in a fleet and a known hotdropper I rat in belts with bubbles and take my chances. If he stays for more than a belt or 2 then I go a system over, they never follow when they are AFK. If he follows then I get on coms and see if there's a fleet around that can handle a bomber hotdrop and go from there.

The point is if he is AFK he wont follow you. If he is not in fleet then he is fair game and you might catch him in a bubble just warping around. If he is in fleet and hunting with a hotdrop fleet on standby then you have a fight on your hands, which imho is more fun than ratting anyway.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2013-02-25 01:23:23 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
To the ones who claim "HTFU", and "nullsec shouldn't be safe". Well that's quite easy to say while you sit behind your cloak and wait for defenseless targets to blap, flawlessly avoiding all the targets that might have a chance at killing you, isn't it? Let's be honest here, cloaky camping isn't exactly the hardest thing in the game to figure out. It's actually pretty low on the totem pole when it comes to skill requirements. Stop acting like you're the god of pvp because you found out how to use a cloaking device to your advantage.

yeah, well, its usre nice to play the vitims when you have access to a several hundred (or in many cases thousands) man alliance, aswell as OUTPOSTS THAT ONLY YOU CAN DOCK AT.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-02-25 01:28:29 UTC
Hurtini Hilitari wrote:
Introduce a new module, to be fitted to Titan's only, that will jam any cloaking devices system wide for 5 minutes. But make it so that the Titan cannot move for 5 minutes either.


It could not jam just cloaking devices only to be balanced it would have to jam all modules.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#98 - 2013-02-25 10:15:47 UTC
I think that the NullBears really need to decide is what they actually want nerfed....

1. The fact that an unknown pilot can use a cloak wherever and for however long he chooses too.

or

2. The action of 'AFK Cloaking'


These are two completely different things.
All to often these threads start out with the OP claiming his/her ideas are to combat option 2, when all they do is totally nerf option 1. And to be honest it always ends up that the OP really does want to nerf option 1 so he can have even more safety in ZeroSecurity space.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#99 - 2013-02-25 10:26:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
And exactly why should you feel safe in there? You know you are at null right? Where everything goes, you are supposed to be at constant risk in there but no, with the way current alliances and coalitions you are usually more safe bearing in your null than on highsec and rolling on isk...

And when there is single threat you start screaming more than all the highsec bears combined? :D


Counter argument.... why should the cloaked up ship feel safe when hes cloaked?


Why should you feel safe when you dock/sit inside pos shields the second a non blue enters local?


I should not

and Nikk Narrel I do agree with you that local gives out too much intel but I still think clakers should not be safe cause they just want to cloak up.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#100 - 2013-02-25 10:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
If CCP nerfs covert cyno hot drops the problem is also alleviated, that's the danger that a covert ship presents. In a way they just turn "crappy blob warfare" into "Surprise! I blobbed you crappy warfare."

They could increase the delay to 3 or 4 minutes or force the hotdroppers to come in randomly all over grid uncloaked and with a delay. The latter gets my vote, I think it would make for more dynamic combat and fitting strategies. IDK, the thing is now that covert hot drops are designed to get a few ships before their weaknesses are taken advantage of. But those weaknesses do exist and they can be taken advantage of as soon as the hot dropper shows up.

Here is a good guide: http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/combat/blackop-drops

The solution is to have your own hotdrop fleet on standby, and just jump on the bombers when they show up. Maybe the OP just needs to move to highsec or W-space.