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EvE is weird: Topic - PIRATES

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Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-02-24 11:45:12 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:

The anonymity of EvE has this problem ...
Now only if ALL accounts are binding towards a credit card , and upon request of the corp and authorization of the account holder , the person's name would be visible to the CEO ....

Because **** privacy amirite? You might also want to have the CEO be able to see the address, I mean.. WHY NOT?

Stupid is at an all time high..
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-02-24 11:48:05 UTC
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:

The anonymity of EvE has this problem ...
Now only if ALL accounts are binding towards a credit card , and upon request of the corp and authorization of the account holder , the person's name would be visible to the CEO ....

Because **** privacy amirite? You might also want to have the CEO be able to see the address, I mean.. WHY NOT?

Stupid is at an all time high..


An alternative would be to revamp the alt system , similar to the banking account .
You may have a saving account , a current account , a time deposit account, but in the end . Its down to the person behind it.
Can be an alias if you want.


Also , you can opt out of it

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Primary Me
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-02-24 11:49:47 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
THATS the only way order can be resumed .

In what way has order been disrupted?
Why is it immoral to kill a hauler?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#24 - 2013-02-24 11:51:46 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Not exactly.
What I am suggesting is accountability , the PERSON behind the toon should be responsible for the acts , precarious liability should be exercised .
THATS the only way order can be resumed .

An alternative would be to revamp the alt system , similar to the banking account .
You may have a saving account , a current account , a time deposit account, but in the end . Its down to the person behind it.
Can be an alias if you want.


To whom should they be responsible?

I am responsible for every action that I perform. Some actions have moral significance (if I were to shoot someone IRL), some do not (if I were to shoot someone in a game that allows shooting people). Why should some random nutjob from an internet spaceship game be allowed to disrupt my real life (an action with moral (and legal) significance) because of actions I made in game (having no moral significance)?


Do you think that someone shooting you in the face in BF2 is taking an action that
a) Has moral significance or
b) does not have moral significance?

If a) Why does an action in a game have moral significance? Why does taking a pawn have moral significance?
If b) Why is shooting your ship in EVE difference?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-02-24 11:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Not exactly.
What I am suggesting is accountability , the PERSON behind the toon should be responsible for the acts , precarious liability should be exercised .
THATS the only way order can be resumed .

An alternative would be to revamp the alt system , similar to the banking account .
You may have a saving account , a current account , a time deposit account, but in the end . Its down to the person behind it.
Can be an alias if you want.


To whom should they be responsible?

I am responsible for every action that I perform. Some actions have moral significance (if I were to shoot someone IRL), some do not (if I were to shoot someone in a game that allows shooting people). Why should some random nutjob from an internet spaceship game be allowed to disrupt my real life (an action with moral (and legal) significance) because of actions I made in game (having no moral significance)?


Do you think that someone shooting you in the face in BF2 is taking an action that
a) Has moral significance or
b) does not have moral significance?

If a) Why does an action in a game have moral significance? Why does taking a pawn have moral significance?
If b) Why is shooting your ship in EVE difference?



BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.

Before I answer the next question.
I would like YOU to answer mine

Do you believe in times of anarchy , one can do whatever he wants ,including pillaging , rap_E and extortion .... and the one with the biggest stick makes the rules?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2013-02-24 13:10:43 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.
…so it's actually the same as EVE (and chess) then?
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-24 13:27:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.
…so it's actually the same as EVE (and chess) then?


Pirates are NOT at war with the indies.
IF war is declared , I don't CARE if they lose 2bil worth of implants or lose a titan.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#28 - 2013-02-24 13:28:23 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.

Before I answer the next question.
I would like YOU to answer mine

Do you believe in times of anarchy , one can do whatever he wants ,including pillaging , rap_E and extortion .... and the one with the biggest stick makes the rules?


BF2 is a game. EVE is a game. What's the difference?


I believe that, in a game, any action legal withing the rules of said game is morally equivalent.

My beliefs on permissible actions in a state of anarchy are irrelevant (though I have to point out that the guy with the biggest stick is probably in the best position to enforce rules so, regardless of my opinion on the morality of the matter, he's likely to be able to make whatever rules he wants.)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#29 - 2013-02-24 13:29:06 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.
…so it's actually the same as EVE (and chess) then?


Pirates are NOT at war with the indies.
IF war is declared , I don't CARE if they lose 2bil worth of implants or lose a titan.


They're shooting at you. If you don't think you're at war, you're pretty unobservant.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-02-24 13:29:56 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
BF2 is different .
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.
…so it's actually the same as EVE (and chess) then?


Pirates are NOT at war with the indies.
IF war is declared , I don't CARE if they lose 2bil worth of implants or lose a titan.


They're shooting at you. If you don't think you're at war, you're pretty unobservant.


At war as in , OFFICIALLY and CONCORD certified WAR

btw ,you still haven't answered my question

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#31 - 2013-02-24 13:37:32 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
They're shooting at you. If you don't think you're at war, you're pretty unobservant.


At war as in , OFFICIALLY and CONCORD certified WAR

btw ,you still haven't answered my question


Why should they do that when they're doing just fine without it?

Sure I have. My feelings on morality in a state of anarchy are irrelevant, as EVE is a game. As it is a game, actions within the bounds of its rules carry no moral weight.

Why do you seem to feel that it's immoral to take someone's pawn in Chess, shoot someone in the face in BF2, or gank someone's hauler in EVE?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-02-24 13:47:16 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Pirates are NOT at war with the indies.
Of course they are. EVE is a PvP game, and the universe is a warzone.

Quote:
IF war is declared , I don't CARE if they lose 2bil worth of implants or lose a titan.
Since people have problems separating real world and game, I suppose it's only appropriate to point out that wars being declared went out of fashion a century ago…

BF2 and chess are just like EVE: games about conflict. Wardecs are just one mechanic to produce a very specific conflict within the mechanics of the game, ever so slightly altering the rule set for that conflict. It's about the same as pulling out your knife in BF2 and goading your opponent into having a duel with you (before both of you get sniped). People performing actions that conflict with yours is what it's all about and has absolutely nothing to do with morals.

Also, the reason BF2 is different is because it's a game — there are plenty of moral in real wars. The lack of same morality in the game is because it's a game… same as EVE and chess.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#33 - 2013-02-24 13:52:46 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.


Almost skipped right over this gem.

Do you mean to say that there is no applicable morality in RL war, or just in-game war?

If just in game war, why are you trying to claim that EVE is an exception?
If RL war as well, what's all this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-02-24 14:18:42 UTC
Another one of these stupid threads made by a stupid pacifist who can't
distinguish between reality and a game ...
Captain Death1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-02-24 14:19:22 UTC
bf3 is a fps game and eve is a mmo not the same kind of pvp fps game pvp reflex and skill at aiming



eve pvp time and isk and in the end mmo pvp is not real pvp it is a type of pvp for poeple with slow reflexs


no game like eve so no way to say this are that game is like are not like eve are the same as eve .
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-02-24 14:23:39 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.


Almost skipped right over this gem.

Do you mean to say that there is no applicable morality in RL war, or just in-game war?

If just in game war, why are you trying to claim that EVE is an exception?
If RL war as well, what's all this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war


Enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2013/February/middleeast_February325.xml&section=middleeast&col=

Many more
So much to reply to

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#37 - 2013-02-24 14:25:40 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.


Almost skipped right over this gem.

Do you mean to say that there is no applicable morality in RL war, or just in-game war?

If just in game war, why are you trying to claim that EVE is an exception?
If RL war as well, what's all this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war


Enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2013/February/middleeast_February325.xml&section=middleeast&col=

Many more
So much to reply to


Are you saying those weren't/aren't morally wrong?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-02-24 14:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Tippia wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Pirates are NOT at war with the indies.
Of course they are. EVE is a PvP game, and the universe is a warzone.

Quote:
IF war is declared , I don't CARE if they lose 2bil worth of implants or lose a titan.
Since people have problems separating real world and game, I suppose it's only appropriate to point out that wars being declared went out of fashion a century ago…

BF2 and chess are just like EVE: games about conflict. Wardecs are just one mechanic to produce a very specific conflict within the mechanics of the game, ever so slightly altering the rule set for that conflict. It's about the same as pulling out your knife in BF2 and goading your opponent into having a duel with you (before both of you get sniped). People performing actions that conflict with yours is what it's all about and has absolutely nothing to do with morals.

Also, the reason BF2 is different is because it's a game — there are plenty of moral in real wars. The lack of same morality in the game is because it's a game… same as EVE and chess.


the difference being .

BF2 , Starcraft , and many other games have CLEAR cut enemy and foe classifications .
You are there to KILL your enenmy to win.
Its a single route game.

In here ,EVE is a SANDBOX
You have the power to CHOOSE to NOT kill , and instead PROTECT those who needs to be educated and allowed time to grow.

Its your choice .
However , the PERSON behind the character should be held responsible , people will NEVER Know whos behind that mask and probably shouldn't know their reality name.
HOWEVER , his actions should leave a record on his account .

For IF , he chose to do so , he SHOULD be man enough to stand up to the world and say.
"I AM WHO I AM! I SHOT AT INDIES! I PREY ON THE WEAK FOR MY PERSONAL GAIN!"
"COME AT ME BRAH!"


If you dare not , and only want to do so with the safety of anonymity , then you're truly the one who should be removed from the game

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-24 14:29:11 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
B) Its war, there is no morals in war. Only the most savage will triumph.


Almost skipped right over this gem.

Do you mean to say that there is no applicable morality in RL war, or just in-game war?

If just in game war, why are you trying to claim that EVE is an exception?
If RL war as well, what's all this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war


Enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2013/February/middleeast_February325.xml&section=middleeast&col=

Many more
So much to reply to


Are you saying those weren't/aren't morally wrong?


Those ARE morally wrong .

John Cory quotes
"There is no morality in war. Morality is the privilege of those judging from the distance. War is only death and destruction. "

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#40 - 2013-02-24 14:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Almost skipped right over this gem.

Do you mean to say that there is no applicable morality in RL war, or just in-game war?

If just in game war, why are you trying to claim that EVE is an exception?
If RL war as well, what's all this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war


Enjoy:

Many more
So much to reply to


Are you saying those weren't/aren't morally wrong?


Those ARE morally wrong .


Then why did you bring them up? You were the one claiming that there was no applicable morality in war (either limited to IG or not). I was pointing out that there does appear to be widely accepted rules for conducting morally defensible RL warfare.

Since you're now saying that there is no applicable morality in in-game warfare only, why do you think EVE (a game) is different from all other games? Why do you think that actions in EVE, unlike actions in any other game, have moral significance?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon