Ships & Modules

Thanks for letting me know what i posted bro. Honestly done with responding to this drivel. If you're unwilling to use more than an ounce of that brain stew you got upstairs then this debate is done. GL running the numbers and eating your foot.

I don't understand where you reach that conclusion from. The agilities in the info dump correspond to the existing inertia modifiers in game. Lower inertia numbers mean a better acceleration when everything else is the same. The Stabber is more agile because is has a higher max velocity, and a lower IM. If the thorax is plated the stabber may also receive the mass advantage.

The reason the frigates have higher IMs is to actually slow them down relative to their low mass, and high max velocities. IM's can't be compared between hull sizes due to the huge mass differences.




I also ran some numbers on base stats to see what the effects would be, speeds from 0 in .5 second intervals
DISCLAIMER: I realize these numbers aren't final, but it was a good exercise in how the numbers impacted things.

Formula form the WIKI

Vt = Vmax * (1 - e^(-t * 10^6 / (I*M) )
MATHS:
Thorax Thorax w/o speed change New Thorax Stabber

V Max 170 170 180 231
IM (agility) 0.585 0.61425 0.61425 0.48
M 11280000 11280000 11280000 11400000

time (s) velocity
0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
0.5 12.41 11.84 12.53 20.17
1 23.91 22.85 24.19 38.58
1.5 34.57 33.09 35.04 55.38
2 44.45 42.62 45.13 70.72
2.5 53.61 51.49 54.52 84.72
3 62.10 59.74 63.26 97.49
3.5 69.98 67.42 71.38 109.15
4 77.28 74.56 78.95 119.79
4.5 84.04 81.21 85.98 129.50
5 90.31 87.39 92.53 138.36


Summary: Without the top speed changes the new thorax would be slower, however, with them, they will get a slight boost to their speeds at any given time. Granted I'm not sure how turning works and the impact of the higher IM here. It also looks like they will be slower to align out since the 75% of max velocity is the warp point. The stabber still travels 40% faster after 5 seconds, so you wont be wanting to drag race any of them.

I apologize for the formatting, it should be exportable to excel as space delimited however.

Yeah, you're wrong. Multiply the mass of th Thorax with its IM and then do the same for the Stabber. The result for the Thorax is 6 598 800, while the Stabber gets 5 472 000, that is why the Stabber is more agile.
These changes will mean that it can reach a certain speed while fighting much faster, but it will take a while to turn around and start burning in the other direction. Personally, I'd welcome going further with this. For example, if pushed far enough, you could have a Deimos with the top speed of a Vagabond so that it's very good at burning in a straight line at the enemy to get in blaster range, or burn away from something to stay at sniper range, but the much worse agility would mean that it can't go faster then it can now if it's trying to maintain an orbit at 20k or so like the Vaga can.
Minmatarr would be able to zip around on the field, turning fast in addition to going fast to maintain range, while the Gallente would burn in a straight line either in towards the center of the fight or away from it to decrease/increase range depending on its weapon type.

I think your on the right track, but It's prob just to see if there is anything good inside there.

Now this looks like what I call "fits", not the lol stuff full eccm and EM energised platings...seriously who's the ****** and/or stupid fc who brings oneiros to remote eccm and rep guardians....

Let me guess: "in vangard sites this works well" .....holly god...

My friend, I've flown nothing but Hybrid ships (and by that read: mostly blaster boats) since 2004 - there were indeed fitting issues back '04-06 ish but those were resolved (e.g. Megathron powergrid boost, CPU reduction on blasters e.t.c).

Fitting is not the core issue for blasters today.

Hasn't been seen yet i think, but i am REALLY looking forward to the Naga!

just crafting on EFT with a Scorpion (as it also has no damage bonus), the Naga SHOULD have:

8 highs, 8 launcher turrets, 4 lows.

That means T2 sieges, 4 x CN BCUs, 1 T2 loading bay accellerator + T2 torps (not that anyone uses them) = 1268 DPS without implants

With a 6% RoF implant, that goes up to 1350... that is a lot.

I was training up Hybrids but gonna continue on missile skillz now :D

I agree that CCP has done good.I am happy with them overall, but like most players I would like to see a tweak or two that benifits me and my playstyle.

i can't help but notice that while Gallente hybrid boats got a speed and agility buff, Caldari only got agility.Many ships in general got speed tweaks, except for Caldari.

The problem with this is simple:If the advantage that Caldari has is range, it is negated by the fact that its ships do not have the speed to dictate the range. Therefore, it is no advantage at all after the opening moments of the engagement.
They are already about the slowest in game, and now the gap has widened further.

Another question I have is this: If, on average, the change to tracking speeds for gallente ships is ~ 20%, is that a greater benifit than the 10% increase in damage that the rails are getting???Not really whining, but I would have liked it more if they had done a little better by Caldari as far as speed goes. They don't need to be the fastest, but being the slowest may take away the chance that rails may have had to be of more significance in the future at a time when subcaps are of increasing importance, and I don't think that's what the devs really intended.I hope they give this some consideration.

Overall I think the changes are significant and exciting. I think the net effect will be to make this into the wargame that I came to play in the first place.No more will fleets be able to just drag out their moms and titans and neglect all other ships types and dominate the battlefield.
It is my opinion that subcaps will play a huge role in fleets fights in the future, to the extent they may determine victory, and whether or not the capitals even enter the field.

Going forward, it seems the battlefield will now have to be prepped, or " shaped" ( in military parlance).Sub capitals will enter the field first, and try to establish a superiority independent of what the capitals do, as when the capitals enter the fray they will be subject to being tackled and held by subcaps in a way they have not been previously. A mom or a dread will be able to do little against a tackling ceptor. Cruisers and AFs will have to deal with them. BCs will attempt to eliminate the cruisers, and the battleships will become relevant again as they enter the field and try to win the subcap fight.and the moms will be deployed only when that fight has been largely settled.Carriers will be important as they will have to try and kill the heavy cruiser to BS sized ships attacking the moms and dreads.From here on in there will be real risk in deploying supercaps as they wont be able to logoffski and wont be able to effectively defend themselves from smaller subcaps any longer.

The dreads will resume their intended role as primary installation attackers, and secondarily will go after the battleships to clear them or drive them off, and the carriers will be obliged to defend the dreads when they become imperilled. Moms will go after the other caps once they are engaged and the titans will be deployed to decide the issue in the role they were probably originally intended for.

The engagements will be longer, and take longer to develop, as only the most foolhardy of FCs will deploy his caps at the outset of the engagement.Morale will become a factor as the engagement drags on.Courage will become an issue for FCs as they decide whether or not they have the goolies to deploy their titans. The risk of losing them will be higher than before, and the net effects of engagements will be more decisive, as when it goes **** up for one side they will lose caps that in the past they could simply log off in.

Tempo, an oft overlooked aspect of combat will become one of major importance, as commanders decide when they want to deploy their BS and the caps, then supercaps.

Individual effort and achievement will be of relevance as the subcaps once again have a role, and a role of great importance.
Surviving subcaps on the field towards the end of the fight may make a dif in caps kills overall as there may be that many more tackled on the field waiting their turn to die like so many trapped Romans at Cannae.Individual surviving ceptors and cruisers will make a difference of a couple of bil for each one left on the field,as there will be that many more caps tackled, and their absence will mean one more carrier or mom the enemy is able to get away with to live to fight another day.

Communications beyond calling primaries will assume even greater significance. The ability of individual FCs will be decisive, even moreso than now, as the situation on the battlefield will not be as important as what the opposing commanders think it is. What they beleive the situation to be will be all important as to when they decide to deploy the supercaps.If they deploy them on a field where the subcap fight is lost, or soon will be lost, those ships may be doomed the moment they enter the battle.

I just noticed the base hitpoints of the new battlecruisers. Roughly half of what the tier 2 BC's have. It's like CCP designed these ships with the specific role of being nuked in one shot by anyone in an insta-lock tempest with 1400s.

A triple trimarked, triple 1600 rolled tungsten + EANM and damage control will be the only remotely survivable fit for the Talos and Oracle. The Tornado can rely on numbers and sensor boosters/amplifiers in every slot that can't fit a gun in order to kill targets before it even gets locked. The Naga is **** out of luck.

TBH the only oneiros fit I've ever flown is the shield tanked one, but the idea of using it as an ECCM platform makes sense. That said, assuming it works (which tbh it should, not sure why there's so much eccm hate here given that ecm is pretty much the only counter to logis in small-medium gangs), it basically means that the oneiros has 2 useful setups:
1 entails being fast, agile and cap-independant, useful for smaller gangs that insist on armor tanking
1 entails being an eccm provider to help keep the guardians going/stop the cap chains from going down.
BOTH require an abundance of midslots to be viable
BOTH will be nerfed should they move a mid to a low.