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Thoughts on nullsec
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Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#21 - 2013-02-21 20:28:22 UTC
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.

......................................................
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-02-21 21:33:21 UTC
I don't live in null now, but I have in the past.


Doesn't matter if the current residents show up with 50 capitals or 5,000 battleships, they can crush any new comers.

And, they don't crush you just because there is no one else to fight.

They crush you to keep their existing member corps/alliances under control. Coalitions are a conglomeration of many, many alliances and member corporations. ALL of them have to be convinced that they are better off as a member of the coalition than they would be on their own. You do this by ensuring that anyone that is not in the coalition is crushed with all due haste.

The problem is not in the game mechanics,but rather a flaw in the mind set of new comers that they can be king in a day. You move into null by becoming a vessel of the existing residents. You don't establish a kingdom as a fully independent entity. You gather strength, then request a duchy by aligning yourself with an established king.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#23 - 2013-02-21 21:34:29 UTC
Horrid Sov mechanics aside....

The real problem with NullSec is the same problem with any crappy neighborhood... the inhabitants.
No imagination.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-02-21 21:43:38 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.



What could CCP possibly do to prevent large coalitions from accepting that peace is more profitable than war?


Seriously, as a high sec industrialist myself, I'd LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see all the PVPers find lots and lots of fun ship-to-ship PVP outside of high sec. More customers for my goods and fewer threads on the forums calling for it to be easier to less with high sec carebears.

I just do not know what CCP could do to drive war, without also creating an exploitable mechanic.

If they move the tech moons, then there would REALLY be no reason for a little guy to try to move to null. One day you're set up in a quite backwater, the next day, 50 super caps show up because a moon in your system now has a valuable resource. That doesn't sound so great.

Plexing for sov? Forcing people that like to PVP, to PVE, in hopes another PVPer will show up to try to stop you? Sounds to me like sitting in a complex for hours and hours would be as, if not more, boring than dropping dreads on a structure.



I think everyone would agree that a constantly raging, relatively small fleet (dozen to hundreds of ships involved, not thousands or lopsided blobinations), state of war, providing meaningful and entertaining PVP for those interested in ship-to-ship PVP would be great.

I'm just totally unable to come up with a mechanic that would create this.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-02-21 21:44:58 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Horrid Sov mechanics aside....

The real problem with NullSec is the same problem with any crappy neighborhood... the inhabitants.
No imagination.



By no imagination, I'm going to assume that what you mean is, they want something different than you want them to want.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#26 - 2013-02-21 21:52:33 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Horrid Sov mechanics aside....

The real problem with NullSec is the same problem with any crappy neighborhood... the inhabitants.
No imagination.


By no imagination, I'm going to assume that what you mean is, they want something different than you want them to want.



Please don't assume, you will only confuse yourself. The statement is pretty straight forward, but I can see you need further direction.

By no imagination, I mean they lack the ability to creatively find solutions to all the sand-box problems they ***** about ( not enough isk, not having fun goals, bad acne, etc.) Sov mechanics are the only REAL problem CCP needs to solve, the rest is up to the population to modify.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#27 - 2013-02-21 22:50:40 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Xpaulusx wrote:
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.



What could CCP possibly do to prevent large coalitions from accepting that peace is more profitable than war?


Seriously, as a high sec industrialist myself, I'd LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see all the PVPers find lots and lots of fun ship-to-ship PVP outside of high sec. More customers for my goods and fewer threads on the forums calling for it to be easier to less with high sec carebears.

I just do not know what CCP could do to drive war, without also creating an exploitable mechanic.

If they move the tech moons, then there would REALLY be no reason for a little guy to try to move to null. One day you're set up in a quite backwater, the next day, 50 super caps show up because a moon in your system now has a valuable resource. That doesn't sound so great.

Plexing for sov? Forcing people that like to PVP, to PVE, in hopes another PVPer will show up to try to stop you? Sounds to me like sitting in a complex for hours and hours would be as, if not more, boring than dropping dreads on a structure.



I think everyone would agree that a constantly raging, relatively small fleet (dozen to hundreds of ships involved, not thousands or lopsided blobinations), state of war, providing meaningful and entertaining PVP for those interested in ship-to-ship PVP would be great.

I'm just totally unable to come up with a mechanic that would create this.

That's a good question and often asked, a good start is to redistribute Tecmoons equally across the map. Next take a good look at space that is least desirable like for instance providence and buff it up. Next sov grinding is horrible at best. that needs to change as well. Of course there are those that will argue against this because its not in there best interest. but even CCP knows this needs to be done. Problem is CCP seems to be foot dragging on these major issues that have everybody up in arms. Hopefully Soon(TM) they'll start.

......................................................
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-02-22 00:25:15 UTC
Ambrocio Hanaya wrote:

That is true balance. 1 type of ship with different models. FUN!


"CCP Y DER SHIP LOOK BETTR!!!!!!!!!!111 NURF"

Such threads would fill the forums, even with everyone flying a generic-in-terms-of-stats ship. This is EVE we're talking about. Cool
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#29 - 2013-02-22 01:37:23 UTC
think of it this way nullsec is like your house almost would you really want a random person comeing into your house and claiming it as their own. I dont think so. so when you try and take our space by dropping sbu's tcu's etc, where going to react violently with capital ships or whatever else we decide to use to get you out of area quickly so we can go back to what we where doing.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-02-22 01:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Rellik B00n wrote:
TL: Its because they have run out of people to fight in null sec, see: big blue donut.

also read the thread in my sig for a more in depth discussion of the OP.


So you are the latest person to go "hot damn I heard this on a forum from an npc alt poster it must be true." Good to know.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#31 - 2013-02-22 01:58:05 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
TL: Its because they have run out of people to fight in null sec, see: big blue donut.

also read the thread in my sig for a more in depth discussion of the OP.


not true, the goons and russian alliances are fun to fight, especially goons. they jump titans when their supposed to bridge, see that, low sec incident for better details. :D
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-02-22 02:12:09 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Xpaulusx wrote:
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.



What could CCP possibly do to prevent large coalitions from accepting that peace is more profitable than war?


Seriously, as a high sec industrialist myself, I'd LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see all the PVPers find lots and lots of fun ship-to-ship PVP outside of high sec. More customers for my goods and fewer threads on the forums calling for it to be easier to less with high sec carebears

Nullsec has more PvP then all other regions put together at present.
People complaining about 'lack of PVP in 0.0' are simply woefully misinformed.
If people are interested in increasing the level of PVP in EVE, maybe they could focus on the 71% of EVE's population only engaging in 21% of the PVP.
Tesal
#33 - 2013-02-22 02:22:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Xpaulusx wrote:
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.



What could CCP possibly do to prevent large coalitions from accepting that peace is more profitable than war?


Seriously, as a high sec industrialist myself, I'd LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see all the PVPers find lots and lots of fun ship-to-ship PVP outside of high sec. More customers for my goods and fewer threads on the forums calling for it to be easier to less with high sec carebears

Nullsec has more PvP then all other regions put together at present.
People complaining about 'lack of PVP in 0.0' are simply woefully misinformed.
If people are interested in increasing the level of PVP in EVE, maybe they could focus on the 71% of EVE's population only engaging in 21% of the PVP.


But hi-sec has the most PvE losses...so that makes up for it right?
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-22 03:19:08 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:

Need more raw materials? No need to have to pillage a neighboring region because you have infinite amounts in if in your few systems.

Want the best rats? No need to roam or pillage for the best ones, because again, you have an unlimited amount of rats in your own systems.


That's just stupid. Resources are 'unlimited' because we import 100% of them from Jita. Industry and Mining in 0.0 is not worth it whatsoever since you are actually making less money there than in highsec.

And Rats are only unlimited in the sense that they respawn after a while. There is very much a limit as to how many ratters a system can support at the same time (a very low one). If you want actually unlimited rats you do missions in highsec because 500 dudes can do missions in the same system.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#35 - 2013-02-22 06:15:51 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
TL: Its because they have run out of people to fight in null sec, see: big blue donut.

also read the thread in my sig for a more in depth discussion of the OP.

So you are the latest person to go "hot damn I heard this on a forum from an npc alt poster it must be true." Good to know.

There's a new latest person who just went "hot damn I heard this on a forum from an npc alt poster it must be true."

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#36 - 2013-02-22 06:16:53 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Larloch TheAncient wrote:
Need more raw materials? No need to have to pillage a neighboring region because you have infinite amounts in if in your few systems.

Want the best rats? No need to roam or pillage for the best ones, because again, you have an unlimited amount of rats in your own systems.

That's just stupid. Resources are 'unlimited' because we import 100% of them from Jita. Industry and Mining in 0.0 is not worth it whatsoever since you are actually making less money there than in highsec.

And Rats are only unlimited in the sense that they respawn after a while. There is very much a limit as to how many ratters a system can support at the same time (a very low one). If you want actually unlimited rats you do missions in highsec because 500 dudes can do missions in the same system.

Highsec, the fount from which so much of the EVE economy flows. Safe and secure by NPC guard protection and game mechanics.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#37 - 2013-02-22 06:44:54 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Larloch TheAncient wrote:

Need more raw materials? No need to have to pillage a neighboring region because you have infinite amounts in if in your few systems.

Want the best rats? No need to roam or pillage for the best ones, because again, you have an unlimited amount of rats in your own systems.


That's just stupid. Resources are 'unlimited' because we import 100% of them from Jita. Industry and Mining in 0.0 is not worth it whatsoever since you are actually making less money there than in highsec.

And Rats are only unlimited in the sense that they respawn after a while. There is very much a limit as to how many ratters a system can support at the same time (a very low one). If you want actually unlimited rats you do missions in highsec because 500 dudes can do missions in the same system.



Just because you choose to import from Jita doens't mean its a requirement. This is because industry in 0.0 is broken, you have more raw materials available in your systems than anywhere in highsec.

Military upgraded systems have anomalies that respawn within minutes, this effectively gives you unlimited rats.

Yes missions are also "unlimited" resource sinks, however we're talking about sov null, I was simply giving an example on why you would not "need" to move to a new region ever in the current system.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-02-22 20:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
SB Rico wrote:
Cap ships are not the issue, whether they exist or not the large alliances will still outgun the newer entrants to null sec.

Not by nearly as much.

Xpaulusx wrote:
Caps are fine, it is the conflict drivers, like Tec, Choice space, that use to produce fights that are now doing the exact opposite, case in point, the current lack luster state that is null. It is easier to pay off your enemy than to fight him, hence the blue donut effect. That needs attention not caps.

I think it's both.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2013-02-22 20:58:17 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:

The "Problem" is that some alliance leaders decided they were going to team up, this means that the only people they have left to fight is the new comers.

yeah that didn't happen you're just whining over your inability to make friends

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2013-02-22 20:59:43 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:

Military upgraded systems have anomalies that respawn within minutes, this effectively gives you unlimited rats.

yes because you can build ships with bounties

you are a brilliant thinker and the world needs more of your wisdom

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
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